does a bow with a shelf perform better

[bradsmith2010]

I have made and shot bows both ways,, my hunting bow has no shelf,,it is easier to be consistant with arrow placement with nocking point and shelf,, but I have neither,,,and like it ok,,
but never noticed a difference in performance with chrono,, thoughts,,?
I have a really nice plum bow Marc made,, no shelf or handle,,it shoots really well with great cast,,what can I say,,

[bassman211]

All personal choice Brad. When I make a replica bow no string nock ,or shelf. When I make bows for myself I always cut a deep arrow shelf ,and install a string nock. If I make a bow for my friends, or family I let them make the choice. Either way is fine, and chronies don't lie if set up properly. My shooting is more consistent with a string nock, and arrow rest. For others it may be the opposite.

[bradsmith2010]

I like both,, just gravitated to the smooth line of no shelf,,but what ever you like to shoot,,,someone stated that no shelf robbed cast, i had not experienced that ,, that I know of,, just interested to see what others thought were,,, as always,, hope to be learning,,

[superdav95]

Interesting topic!  Not that I have a ton of experience with comparisons but I did do a little experiment a while back with 2 of my bamboo bows.  One had a shelf and one incidentally did not (I’ve since added a shelf on the other one now).  At that time I preferred a shelf.  I found that both shot well with negligible difference if any in chrono speeds.  The one difference I noted was the noise the shelf bow made compared to the off the knuckles bow made.  One could argue that more noise in this case could mean loss of energy thus speed.  Perhaps this is the case but what I noticed out of both 40lbs bows were good speeds out of both and were comparable.  I’m putting finishing touches on a different 40-45 lbs bamboo/sinew bow now that has no shelf or knock point.  I may add a knock point later on but right now this bow is dead nuts accurate for me.  I think a lot of this may be the fact that it’s very well balanced and light in the hand and don’t have to struggle to hold on target.  This bow is likley up there with my smoothest draw bow to date with zero handshock either.  It feels like every ounce of energy is put into the arrow.  Accuracy would even be better with consistent knock point I imagine.  I make sure I square up by eye with the riser handle before I shoot so it’s fairly consistent but knock point just makes sense to me.  The shelf I could add on too later I guess but at this point I love the silence of this bow the way it is.  I’ve made other bows similar with homemade feather shelf’s and hair pass that cut noise down still not as whisper quiet as this bow.  To eachs own I guess and like bassman says personal preference.   I’ve not seen much difference in speed on my limited testing.  FYI

[Pat B]

For me, no.
  I like a bulbous handle and make the arrow pass about 1" or slightly less. Years ago I started using a floppy rest mainly to protect my thin aging skin on my hand and I use it on most of the bows I make. I sometimes add a small leather rest but I haven't cut in a shelf for quite a while. I prefer not to. To me it's a possible weak spot. I do have a couple of modern glass bows that have shelves and I shoot them pretty well but I imagine that is mostly due to being closer to center shot. I vary rarely ever shoot these bows.
 I don't think a shelf adds performance but it probably does affect how well some folks shoot.
 

[bradsmith2010]

i guess it could really vary from bow to bow,, the floppy rest seems a good way to go,, its effective and minimal,,and easily adjusted if need be,,, if tiller ever shifted it could be moved to tune the bow,,

[simk]

Imho the more center shot the stiffer arrows can be used. Stiffer arrows stabilize quicker and loose less energy with unnecessary movement. Closer to centershot also makes it easier to find the right arrows. I think there's a big advantage in building close to centershot, altough I personally dont like the look of a cutout shelf. jm2c

[superdav95]

Simk,  That makes sense to me. That loss of energy in arrow flight recovery.  The flimsy rest might be similar to the feather rest. The arrow floats above the cut out so to speak and you basically have feather on feather on pass through.  They do start to wear out after a few hundred shots though. 

[Eric Krewson]

I can shoot a bow with or without a shelf, during my initial tillering I don't have a shelf on a bow, I add one later.

I add a shelf and tiller the bow to the shelf, I can't explain it but I feel how the bow feels as I shoot it to determine the final tweaks that are necessary in the tillering so it "just feels right".

I don't initially cut in much of a sight window, I bare shaft to select the spine the bow likes. If my arrows hit 3" to the left I will fine tune where they hit by filing a little more of a sight window cutout. Usually, it doesn't take much, 1/8" will often mover the arrow impact over the necessary amount.

For my personal bows this is an ongoing process that goes on for months as the bow shoots in and stabilizes, I make tiny little adjustments until I feel everything is just right.

This is about where I end up on a rest and sight window, I may cut it in a little more during the tuning process.

I always cover the handle with leather to cover up most of my glued on rest.



 

[superdav95]

Man that looks good Eric.  Nice and slick.  Did you use bone or antler for the rest?

[superdav95]

Has anyone here tried these feather rests??  Here’s a couple pics of one I made recently.  Seems to quiet down the bow a bit. 

[Pat B]

The thing about this is a shelf is only in effect as the arrow is drawn. Once the arrow is released it should not touch the shelf or the side of the window so as I see it the shelf only helps the shooter keep the arrow on the bow while drawn. I use the floppy rest to protect my hand if my release isn't good and the fletching rides across my hand.

[mmattockx]

Imho the more center shot the stiffer arrows can be used. Stiffer arrows stabilize quicker and loose less energy with unnecessary movement. Closer to centershot also makes it easier to find the right arrows. I think there's a big advantage in building close to centershot, altough I personally dont like the look of a cutout shelf. jm2c

+1 to this. I can't imagine a shelf will significantly improve raw arrow speed, but it does offer the above advantages along with greater consistency. If ultimate accuracy is your goal then a shelf (or even better, a rest) will be the way to go, but many people shoot well enough off their hand or a floppy rest for most uses.


Mark

[Eric Krewson]

I make my shelves and tip overlays with some kind of burl wood, I have osage, walnut and oak burls.

My rests start out like this before I file them down to shape.

[superdav95]

It’s a good technique right there.  I do very similar with mine.  I like a very tight glue line.  On this one I used small leftover pieces of Buffalo horn  for the rests and bloodwood for the pass on each side.  More decorative then anything really but thought it looked good.