does a bow with a shelf perform better

[bradsmith2010]

those are so beautiful,, im sure the arrow goes faster

[Selfbowman]

Imho the more center shot the stiffer arrows can be used. Stiffer arrows stabilize quicker and loose less energy with unnecessary movement. Closer to centershot also makes it easier to find the right arrows. I think there's a big advantage in building close to centershot, altough I personally dont like the look of a cutout shelf. jm2c

+1 to this. I can't imagine a shelf will significantly improve raw arrow speed, but it does offer the above advantages along with greater consistency. If ultimate accuracy is your goal then a shelf (or even better, a rest) will be the way to go, but many people shoot well enough off their hand or a floppy rest for most uses.

This is why I do it!!! Stiffer arrows that come out of a bow clean go farther!!! Chrono’s just tell’s the tell at 3-5’. Also they don’t tell anything about clean flight .Just saying. But if you don’t like a shelf that’s fine. I don’t add wood I just leave what Needs to be there. Gorgeous bows guys. Arvin


Mark

[bassman211]

It has always been easier for me to tune the bow to the arrow  with a shelf, and a lot of times I can shoot more than one spine, and get good bare shaft results. My bow shelves are 1/4 inch deep give ,or take. I agree that the shelf cut out weakens that area of the bow, but I haven't had any breakage problems in that area to date.

[George Tsoukalas]

Beautiful, Eric. I don't do cut out shelves but I do favor some shaped leather as a shelf.
If I decide to shoot without one it is usually at the top of the leather covering.
The forward ends of the fletchings need to be skyved. I usually wrap my feathers anyway.
More on my site.

http://traditionalarchery101.com/leatherhandle.html

Jawge

[Pat B]

I always wrap the forward end of the fletching and have for years. I friend of mine had a loose fletch go into his hand once and since then I've wrapped the forward end and sealed it to smooth it out.

[bradsmith2010]

  most of my shots are very close compared to someone flight shooting,,I agree chrono cant tell how far the arrow gonna go,, but its a good indication of bow perfromance,,my bows are hunting bows,,and good arrow flight is important as well,, I killed a very large buffalo with a bow that had no rest,,the arrow went in
 behind the shoulder and came out the other side,, I just dont feel like a rest is necessary for a hunting bow,,if there is a loss of performance it is not a consideration for how I use a bow,, I am able to shoot stiffer spined arrows with a good release,, I think in theory its a good point,, but in real life ,,, either way works fine,,, and my go to is,, if it was  really important,,or an advantage,, we would have seen arrow rest on many more bows of the past,,, having no rest is just not a negative thing,,
  ok more info than needed,, but back in the day,,20 30 years ago, all the guys shooting my bows for competition used a rest,, back then most were making the transition from a fiberglass bow and the thought of no rest really freaked them out, so all the bows I made had a rest or even a cut into the bow rest,, Im not sure what inspired me to do the buffalo hunt with bow with no rest, but I think I was trying to learn about Nataive style bows and just wanted to hunt with something similar to what they hunted with,, as stated it was effective,, as I made more and more bows over the years I think I just enjoyed the most basic designs,,
   I will use Mark as an example hope he dont mind, but I mentioned the plum bow I bought from him,, no handle,, not rest,, bows makers at that level,, would not make a bow if it was not effecient,, or somehow flawed in design,,
   what I should take a rasp and cut a shelf in it, not gonna happen,, 
   I post a pic when I get organized here,,

[George Tsoukalas]

Brad, I agree. I cannot see how there could be a loss in performance.
Betcha more animals have been killed without rests than with over the past Millenia.
Jawge

[bradsmith2010]

good point George,,I like that about the past millenia

[mmattockx]

I think in theory its a good point,, but in real life ,,, either way works fine,,,

Betcha more animals have been killed without rests than with over the past Millenia.

I don't think anyone disagrees with the above, but it is worth remembering that good enough and optimum are not the same thing. It's a horses for courses thing. When chasing the last 1% of performance everything has to be just right, which is why Arvin finds using a cut in rest to be better. For a hunting bow being used with heavy arrows at close range other aspects are more important.


Mark

[George Tsoukalas]

Nothing wrong with a rest that is cut-in as long as the handle is not bending. Jawge

[bradsmith2010]

I just dont believe a cut in rest is better,,for most applications,, show me an example of improved performance,,, so I can get my head around it,, any example,,, I used my arrow through the buffalo as an example,, it was way beyond good enough,it looked optimum to me when the arrow came out the other side,,, so what would optimum be,, two buffalos,, ok I have read that some did kill the buffalo and cow behind,,    with bow making, there are so many ways to improve perfromance,,,I just dont think the arrow rest is a major one,, but if you show me something Im open minded,, any example,,have not been convinced to cut a rest in Marc's bow,, if it needed one he would have done it,, right
   if the bow handle is close to center, what difference would it make if it had rest or not,,performance wise,,it would shoot the same stiff arrow,, it would get the same tuned arrow flight,, what???

[mmattockx]

I just dont believe a cut in rest is better,,for most applications,, show me an example of improved performance,,, so I can get my head around it,,

<snip>

with bow making, there are so many ways to improve perfromance,,,I just dont think the arrow rest is a major one,

<snip>

if the bow handle is close to center, what difference would it make if it had rest or not

1) Arvin did give you an example - flight shooting. If he says a cut in rest gives better performance I will believe him. For less performance oriented applications I don't think it matters at all.
2) I agree 100%, the arrow rest is one of the last 1% things, not a major thing at all.
3) A rest/shelf is more consistent and centershot requires less arrow flex, both of which are more forgiving in the case of a bad shot/release. Again, we are talking about tiny differences. If your bow has a natural centershot handle then that should be the same as a cut in shelf in terms of paradox.

One thing to think about is Olympic archers and what their bows look like. If arrow rests and centershot risers offered no advantages why do they use them? And why are they banned from trad/primitive archery competitions?


Mark

[bassman211]

2x mm, but if you are happy with out a shelf so be it. It is your bow, your arrow, and your little world.

[bradsmith2010]

he didnt give an example of flight shooting,he just said it was an advantage,, maybe it is,, , an example would be like all flight shooting records use a rest, that could be true I dont know,,flight shooting is out of my area of expertise,,

I didnt know we were talking about olympic shooting,, isnt this a primitive site,,,

so you think cutting a rest in Marcs bow would improve perfromance,, because the olympic bows have one,,

Im glad to believe him if someone shows me an example,, if I was gonna compete in flight shooting and all winners had a rest,, I would get one really quick,

[bradsmith2010]

badger gonna post and say he proved it by shooting flight records with a rest,,well then ill say ok,,,