Why I think osage is an inferior bow wood...

[toomanyknots]

But, I think I do see and agree with the point you are trying to make Ryoon. It has been kind of hard to keep track of all the conversation in this thread for me. But if you were saying that regardless of who the king of bow woods is, that design is the king of bowyers, than I do agree with you,  .

[RyanY]

TMK, a long bow with elliptical tiller won't stack. The points you are trying to make have no evidence for them so for me to try and argue would just put us into a loop. Light weight osage bows can be made without handshock and warbows are no different. You send me a piece of osage good enough for a warbow and I'll show you.  Yes. Design is everything. Thank you.

[iowabow]

I agree with beadman that hunting everyday is a big factor that needs to be considered. Also sitting in a rain and fog and snow. The bow should be able to handle hunting seasons that range from 80 degrees to 10 degrees (Iowa hunting). The bow needs to rebound fast so that it can be used twice in one day. It needs to be able to whack a small limb and break it if it is in the arrow lane. it should be able to be dropped multiple times from a stand and still shoot. It should be able to handle the shock of hitting the stand if you were not focused and smacked the stand while shooting. If you are using primitive string then should be able to handle the shock of a sting break (it happened to a flax sting I made a couple of years ago). To me  the argument is not FPS but overall performance. If you take deer with your bow and it takes what you dish out then you are using the right wood. I think this is 20 pages of posts about who can build a faster bow not what works best in practice.

[blackhawk]

Too many...please find a quote from me that says osage is the end all wood...

Gee, ok:

"Anyways...I'm out and don't need to explain myself anymore even tho much more can be said...I know osage is best. <------ that's a period"

From page 3 of this thread, in your 3rd post from the top, right here: http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,36150.30.html

Also, you never answered me, you said on page 2 ",and can make ANY design out there and do it well," So, is a warbow not a legitimate bow in your world? Since osage is the best wood, does it also make the best warbows?, that aren't handshocky, or sluggish at all?



Try again..I don't see the words osage is the end all. More misunderstanding and misinterpretation on your part.

[blackhawk]

Rossfactor, what i mean is the degree to which we can get wood to bend, not specifying dimensions. I don't think you understand what I'm saying either.

blackhawk, I'm waiting for a reason. A well designed bow won't break. If it breaks it's not well designed. Unless of course you were going for firewood.

Uhhh....then what does this say with no further explanation,and that wasn't the only time. Again more contradictions and trying to cover up a faulty saying.

[RyanY]

iowabow, That's an excellent point. The problem I see is that a lot of guys claim that many other woods can't do those things when really they've never tried. If a bow is designed properly and well maintained then the shooting characteristics shouldn't be an issue. But a poplar bow may very well get too damaged in the rough to make it through a hunting season. But I'd be willing to bet there are many hard woods that can.

blackhawk, thats true but your pointing out my contradictions instead of trying to see the point that I'm making which should be clear. Bows can break if properly designed but not because of that. You're saying that your bows that broke were properly design and have failed to cite a reason other than the fact that they were of different woods. Was the wood flawed or too dry? If not then I think it might be the bowyers fault.

[Keenan]

Yew is King,    There I said it, end of discusion!   You can all send me hate mail now. LOL   You can all say what you want but I'll just sit back and let you all go to war over your hard woods, and I'll sit back and gently scrape the buttery smooth shavings of cream colored sapwood and rich red heartwood of the mighty yew! Did I mention it is great in tension and compression as well as very forgiving with knots, heat corrects well and you don't have to chase a ring. Great for an ELB, flat bow, sinewed shortie or any design period! LOL   Bet I sirred up a hornets nest now.

[toomanyknots]

TKM, a long bow with elliptical tiller won't stack. The points you are trying to make have no evidence for them so for me to try and argue would just put us into a loop. Light weight osage bows can be made without handshock and warbows are no different. You send me a piece of osage good enough for a warbow and I'll show you.  Yes. Design is everything. Thank you.

Yes, although I agree that design generally trumps species, designing a warbow out of osage is a bad design. A light weight bow and a warbow are entirely different things. A warbow will generally bend in the handle alot more than a light weight osage bow. Yes, stack will be apparent in an elliptically tillered (read: slightly whip tillered) warbow. In fact it will be excruciatingly apparent. So much that you'll never make one again. Ask me how I know. How long is this "osage warbow" we're talking about"? Alot of the maryrose bows were close to 78"? If this osage warbow is anything over 72" it will have handshock, no getting around it. It's just too heavy. If it is alot shorter than that, it will not draw as smooth as a warbow ideally (or hopefully) should, especially if it is elliptically tillered. Elliptical tiller is more favorable in lighter weight longbows IMO.

[RyanY]

TMK, Warbow's don't necessarily have to bend in the handle to the degree you're explaining. The length of the bow decreases the string angle so stack wouldn't be apparent unless the bow were whip tillered to the point of it being poor tiller and design. The longer the bow the more elliptically tillered it would have to be. You're making absolute claims about osage as a warbow that are completely unjustified except for your own experiences. I'd like to see your warbow that gave you these ideas. Also I'll be waiting for that stave. 

[PatM]

It is silly to say that a hunting environment will show why Osage is  the best. In the grand scheme of archery history in a meaningful sense, it barely registers. During the time that its use in archery really mattered it grew in a restricted area.
 Virtually no wars were won with it, nor was even a fraction of total game harvested accomplished by osage bows.
 Osage certainly won't make you a more successful hunter.

[bushboy]

I like elm ! Enough said!

[iowabow]

It is silly to say that a hunting environment will show why Osage is  the best. In the grand scheme of archery history in a meaningful sense, it barely registers. During the time that its use in archery really mattered it grew in a restricted area.
 Virtually no wars were won with it, nor was even a fraction of total game harvested accomplished by osage bows.
 Osage certainly won't make you a more successful hunter.

If you take deer with your bow and it takes what you dish out then you are using the right wood. Did I say Osage? I do see why you would assume...

[blackhawk]

Yew is King,    There I said it, end of discusion!   You can all send me hate mail now. LOL   You can all say what you want but I'll just sit back and let you all go to war over your hard woods, and I'll sit back and gently scrape the buttery smooth shavings of cream colored sapwood and rich red heartwood of the mighty yew! Did I mention it is great in tension and compression as well as very forgiving with knots, heat corrects well and you don't have to chase a ring. Great for an ELB, flat bow, sinewed shortie or any design period! LOL   Bet I sirred up a hornets nest now.

Right on Keenan..Atta boy ...I love yew too,untill I bang it into something or drop it

[Keenan]

Yew is King,    There I said it, end of discusion!   You can all send me hate mail now. LOL   You can all say what you want but I'll just sit back and let you all go to war over your hard woods, and I'll sit back and gently scrape the buttery smooth shavings of cream colored sapwood and rich red heartwood of the mighty yew! Did I mention it is great in tension and compression as well as very forgiving with knots, heat corrects well and you don't have to chase a ring. Great for an ELB, flat bow, sinewed shortie or any design period! LOL   Bet I sirred up a hornets nest now.

Right on Keenan..Atta boy ...I love yew too,untill I bang it into something or drop it

Well your not suppose to beat on it like it's a club.  You carry her like a highly crafted and detailed black powder rifle   

[blackhawk]

Guess ill have to start doing that Keenan .... and ya forgot to mention how smooth as molasses yew is to pull back,and how sweet it is upon release