Why I think osage is an inferior bow wood...

[RyanY]

TMK, stacking has nothing to do with draw weight and everything to do with string angle. A 72" bow with a 32" draw will not have a drastic increase in draw weight near the end of the draw. I think PatM is on to something.

[toomanyknots]

TMK, I made a hickory warbow that was under 72" ntn, and 120#@32" and it didn't stack. You were saying?

Yes, so have I. That bow was not elliptically tillered, so basically you are making no point. Either way I am done with this. Good night and have fun.

[toomanyknots]

TMK, stacking has nothing to do with draw weight and everything to do with string angle. A 72" bow with a 32" draw will not have a drastic increase in draw weight near the end of the draw. I think PatM is on to something.

YES it WILL when the elliptical tiller you purpose is making the string angle less than ideal. When the bow works evenly, it is funny, that it alot of the time will have an even force draw curve as well. Yes this could be argued to be solely string angle, I am not going to even get into that. And I never said stack had anything to do with anything. I said it is more apparent and more of an issue at higher weight, which it is Anyway, good night,  .

[RyanY]

If a bow like that stacks... which it wouldn't... 

[BowEd]

Lordy it's still going.....Pat M....15 F is my limit.I sit in it often enough with hedge,but I've target shot white woods that cold too with no ill effects.I'll target shoot occasionally because of cabin fever as low as 0 F.I'm from Iowa.Where are you from?Does it get that cold by you?
There have been winters that it does'nt get above zero during the day for three weeks in a stretch and down to 25 below at night.I'm a retired farmer so I feel I do know what cold is.

[Keenan]

OK everyone, we've had some nice discusion and even a little fun with the verbal jousting. Everyone head back to your corners and make your best bow. Next week we'll all get together for the shoot off. First will up north with at low tempt test of 10 degrees for the ice breaker challenge.  Then we could all head down to the local spa for the hot and humid test in the sauna to measure loss of poundage, loss of cast and mass increase of set.   Just kidding of-coarse. You all get the point. We could go on for days about extremes and who can pee into the wind the farthest and get no where. I think we can all agree we each have preferences most due to enviorments and experiences that we have had.  I have my favorites but always love trying new wood types and new styles as well. after all that is how we learn. Heck I may even have to try some of the theories that have come up on this thread for my own info

[RyanY]

For example. I'm just finishing up a couple bows that are 56" long and 50#@28". Even with that ratio of draw length to bow length the weight only increases less than 3# each of the last four inches of draw. A 72" bow with a 32" draw has a much shorter ratio of bow length to draw length and would have to be incorrectly tillered to make it stack.

[criveraville]

Interesting and fun..


Juliet:
"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."
Romeo and Juliet (II, ii, 1-2)


Doesn't really matter what we call Osage.. It's still Osage bearing all it's qualities.

Cipriano

[PatM]

I think some people on here need to revisit the shapes of a  circle, an  ellipse,and  a parabola. Why do we never talk about parabolic tiller?

[toomanyknots]

If a bow like that stacks... which it wouldn't... 

A bow that is 72" and even 100# @ 32" with an elliptical tiller, that is a tiller that barely even works if at all in the center, and does most of the work in the mid to outer limbs, making string angle less than ideal at fulldraw and creating less leverage than a normal warbow tiller would have in the outer limbs to tips, is going to be a horrid bow to draw and IMO an elliptical tiller for a warbow is a poor choice and is a poorly designed bow. Nuff said. That ain't no bullpoop man. That ain't some idea I just pulled out my behind. Anyway, I am going to bed, I am tired, it has been great, I will correct your misquotes and deal with the words you put in my mouth in the morning, good night,  .

[RyanY]

Less than ideal is relative to draw length and at 72" long with a 32" draw the length is plenty. If you send me an osage stave I will make you an osage warbow you would be happy with. Promise.

[BowEd]

Keenan your a hoot.......but I would fail on the peeing contest.......LOL.Ryan I hope some day that your designs correspond to hedge to appreciate its value.Goodnight.

[toomanyknots]

Less than ideal is relative to draw length and at 72" long with a 32" draw the length is plenty. If you send me an osage stave I will make you an osage warbow you would be happy with. Promise.

I see what your trying to do, your just trying to score some "inferior osage",  . Ryoon, seriously, I guarantee you, there is nothing I am doing in regards to warbows that is in anyway significantly different than whatever you are doing. If you gave that bow an elliptical tiller like you have purposed, that stacked like heck for the last 2", you can go ahead and keep it. If I remember correctly, your hickory was tillered very well, and not in anyway an elliptical tiller. Tiller shape and string angle make a big difference in the draw in heavy weight bows I have found, and the effects of either are both more noticeable. Anyway, like I've said a couple times, my point is not if you can make an osage warbow, it is that an osage warbow will not in anyway compare with a similar warbow of better wood choices, and is in no way the "best" bow wood in every scenario. This was in response to all the people in this thread claiming osage is the utmost best bow wood period. I guess you are claiming that all bow woods perform exactly the same always as long as design is taken in mind and executed accordingly. To a small extent I agree, but to claim that this is always the case is an absolute in itself.

EDIT: Also, anyone who seriously shoots warbows of any significant weight typically does not shoot bows so short as 72". The couple more inches has a big effect on stack. Believe me or not. Or at the very least, I am sure they would rather shoot a 74"  - 78" bow, especially if shooting for a long period of time.

[RyanY]

The bow I made was slightly elliptical and actually should have bent more in the handle for less set. I've provided several examples and explanations for why an osage warbow wouldn't stack or have handshock but I have yet to see one from you other than the fact that it's a dense wood which actually is a great advantage for a warbow. And again, draw weight will not change the behavior of the draw. If a heavy bow is tillered in such a way that it stacks at the end of the draw then a light bow would stack in the same manner. I do believe that all woods will perform similarly if designed correctly. There may be extremes but an osage warbow isn't one of them. If I ever get a good piece to make one I'll be sure to share it here.

[ionicmuffin]

if you are talking self bows than osage is not a prime warbow wood, in a laminate however, this is far from the truth. In fact i really want to see about making a hickory/bamboo backed  madrona/rhododendron warbow. with the compression strength of the last two combine with the tension strength of the first two it could be a very effective weapon...