Author Topic: Why I think osage is an inferior bow wood...  (Read 132482 times)

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Offline Arrowind

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Re: Why I think osage is an inferior bow wood...
« Reply #285 on: November 30, 2012, 12:03:07 am »
Blink and we're up to 21 pages.... 
Talking trees. What do trees have to talk about, hmm... except the consistency of squirrel droppings?

Offline toomanyknots

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Re: Why I think osage is an inferior bow wood...
« Reply #286 on: November 30, 2012, 12:05:28 am »
TMK, Warbow's don't necessarily have to bend in the handle to the degree you're explaining. The length of the bow decreases the string angle so stack wouldn't be apparent unless the bow were whip tillered to the point of it being poor tiller and design. The longer the bow the more elliptically tillered it would have to be. You're making absolute claims about osage as a warbow that are completely unjustified except for your own experiences. I'd like to see your warbow that gave you these ideas. Also I'll be waiting for that stave.  ;D

I said elliptically tillered, not poorly tillered. Because it is so much fun, I will repeat myself:

"Yes, stack will be apparent in an elliptically tillered (read: slightly whip tillered) warbow. In fact it will be excruciatingly apparent."

And like I asked before, how long is this warbow we are talking about? If maryrose length, where stacking would not be as apparent, handshock would be wrist shattering. Ya ever shot a bow that you just hated to shoot? A bow that just hurt to shoot? Where if it were made of a lighter wood such as yew (or mulberry, if ya didn't have no choice, and didn't have no yew like me) handshock could and would easily be acceptable with a comparable bow. And if the bow would be 71" - 73" like I would make it to cut down on the sluggishness of a longer dense bow, if tillered ellliptically, it would definitely stack to heck and back. Stack is definitely more noticeable in heavier weight bows. And it is more important (to me, I would assume everyone else as well) to have a smooth drawing bow when the draw weight is high.

"TMK, Warbow's don't necessarily have to bend in the handle to the degree you're explaining."

"The degree I am explaining" is a warbows normal tiller. If this osage warbow is long enough to draw smooth when elliptically tillered, it will absolutely shoot like a dog (compared to lighter woods). If this osage bow is short enough to make up for the extra outer weight, than an elliptical tiller will cause a very unenjoyable draw stacking at the last 2" to 3" of draw. It will also have more set due to more working being done in the mid and outer limbs opposed to an ideal even bend. If this bow is than tillered properly to reduce stack and set, it will have wrist shattering hand shock. I have made alright heavier "longbows" of osage, but it is a poor choice for a warbow. And I mean "alright", but not ideal by any means. Once again, my only point about all this was that osage is not the best bow wood in all scenarios, not that you cannot make a warbow out of osage. I do agree that design trumps species, but I do not mean that every wood is ideal for every design, and I believe we do in fact have to take species into account with when designing a bow. 

"You're making absolute claims about osage as a warbow that are completely unjustified"

No I'm not. I'm not doing anything even close to that.

"I'd like to see your warbow that gave you these ideas."

Nothing I said is an idea based on one bow, or an idea of my own at all. I don't own any of the early warbows I have made, nor do I even own a warbow at this time. I haven't made a warbow for about a year since popping out my out rib when tillering.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 12:11:32 am by toomanyknots »
"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline RyanY

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Re: Why I think osage is an inferior bow wood...
« Reply #287 on: November 30, 2012, 12:19:06 am »
Then where are you getting these ideas from? Just making them up? I've never heard anyone say that longer bows stack so perhaps you and I disagree on what that means. And you're saying that osage won't make a comfortably shooting warbow which is entirely untrue. Like I said before, osage can make comfortably shooting bows of lighter weights. To say it can't make one of heavier weights makes absolutely no sense. Your ideas on the weight of osage limbs in a heavier bow is a gross over exaggeration with no support. Also the bow with the worst handshock I've ever shot was a short (sub 60") juniper bow.

Offline osage outlaw

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Re: Why I think osage is an inferior bow wood...
« Reply #288 on: November 30, 2012, 12:23:58 am »
All right.  Now you are arguing for osage.  I knew you would come around  ;D  Welcome to the winning side  >:D

When you target shoot with your bows do you leave them strung for hours at a time?  Do you target shoot in below freezing temperatures or in the rain?
I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left

Offline RyanY

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Re: Why I think osage is an inferior bow wood...
« Reply #289 on: November 30, 2012, 12:31:48 am »
OO, Notice I said it would make a good warbow, not a better one.  ;)  I do leave my bows strung for as long as I'm shooting but I can't say I've shot in any temperature extremes. Let me ask you this. Have you made an excellent white wood bow and left it strung for hours at a time and shot it in below freezing temps or in the rain?

blackhawk

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Re: Why I think osage is an inferior bow wood...
« Reply #290 on: November 30, 2012, 12:35:50 am »
@toomanyknots.....sounds like yew need to get the heck out of dodge and move to the pacific northwest so you would have yew available to you...if a smooth pulling,sweet upon release shooting Longbow is important to you,yew would love yew and fall head over heals in love with it.  ;)

Finally,I agree with Ryan. And that a well made osage elb is within reason for osage. I'd also like to welcome you to the winning side..lol  :laugh:

Offline PatM

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Re: Why I think osage is an inferior bow wood...
« Reply #291 on: November 30, 2012, 12:40:17 am »
As I said above all the weather extremes that Osage copes with make little sense. There are bows used everywhere on Earth where Osage has never been heard of.
  I target shoot and hunt for hours on end without using Osage. Freezing. rain, snow etc. etc.
 I have a thought that the Osage guys don't really know what cold actually is.

Offline RyanY

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Re: Why I think osage is an inferior bow wood...
« Reply #292 on: November 30, 2012, 12:41:35 am »
blackhawk, when it comes to making bows we all win. But I would like to understand what it means when a bow is smooth pulling and sweet upon release.  >:D

Offline osage outlaw

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Re: Why I think osage is an inferior bow wood...
« Reply #293 on: November 30, 2012, 12:43:12 am »
OO, Notice I said it would make a good warbow, not a better one.  ;)  I do leave my bows strung for as long as I'm shooting but I can't say I've shot in any temperature extremes. Let me ask you this. Have you made an excellent white wood bow and left it strung for hours at a time and shot it in below freezing temps or in the rain?

Yes, from HHB, my second favorite bow wood.  I'll give you one guess to figure out what my #1 is  ;D   It did take a little more set than what I would have liked.  It was a sweet shooter. 
I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left

Offline osage outlaw

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Re: Why I think osage is an inferior bow wood...
« Reply #294 on: November 30, 2012, 12:47:47 am »
Ryan, I give up for the night.  I've been awake since 3 pm yesterday  :P
I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left

Offline SLIMBOB

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Re: Why I think osage is an inferior bow wood...
« Reply #295 on: November 30, 2012, 12:48:32 am »
Well I've mostly stayed out until now.  But I gotta throw the brakes on "Osage guys don't know what cold is."  We actually dipped below freezing here once a few years ago.  It's still talked about!
Liberty, In God We Trust, E Pluribus Unum.  Distinctly American Values.

Offline RyanY

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Re: Why I think osage is an inferior bow wood...
« Reply #296 on: November 30, 2012, 12:49:18 am »
OO, If I had to guess from your name I'd say... POPLAR!  >:D Did your HHB bow take more set after use or during its making? I'd like to know more about it. See you tomorrow!

Offline toomanyknots

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Re: Why I think osage is an inferior bow wood...
« Reply #297 on: November 30, 2012, 12:49:41 am »
I've never heard anyone say that longer bows stack so perhaps you and I disagree on what that means.

I explained myself clearly enough for you to understand what I was saying, I am tired of repeating myself. Either read what I type, or don't try to quote me. A warbow that draws to 32", not a longer bow in general, a warbow, that has 2 to 3 times the draw weight of a typical recreational target or hunting bow, a higher draw weight that will by all means make any small amount of stack 1000 times more apparent even if said stack was basically a non - issue on a light draw weight 32" draw length bow, a warbow, specifically a 72" osage warbow with an elliptical tiller, will stack like heck. Thats drawing out to 32" not 26" or 28" like you might be used to. Or do you purpose I make the bow a full 78", and shatter my wrist to crumbs with the bone crushing handshock, just to be rewarded with a slow motion fps speed? Ya, that sounds like a better "idea". And no, these are not "ideas" I came up with, these are facts by any definition. But I guess some people might prefer handshocky slow shooting bows, ya never know. I sure don't.

« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 12:54:07 am by toomanyknots »
"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline RyanY

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Re: Why I think osage is an inferior bow wood...
« Reply #298 on: November 30, 2012, 12:56:50 am »
TMK, I made a hickory warbow that was under 72" ntn, and 120#@32" and it didn't stack. You were saying?

Offline PatM

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Re: Why I think osage is an inferior bow wood...
« Reply #299 on: November 30, 2012, 01:02:48 am »
I've never heard anyone say that longer bows stack so perhaps you and I disagree on what that means.

I explained myself clearly enough for you to understand what I was saying, I am tired of repeating myself. Either read what I type, or don't try to quote me. A warbow that draws to 32", not a longer bow in general, a warbow, that has 2 to 3 times the draw weight of a typical recreational target or hunting bow, a higher draw weight that will by all means make any small amount of stack 1000 times more apparent even if said stack was basically a non - issue on a light draw weight 32" draw length bow, a warbow, specifically a 72" osage warbow with an elliptical tiller, will stack like heck. Thats drawing out to 32" not 26" or 28" like you might be used to. Or do you purpose I make the bow a full 78", and shatter my wrist to crumbs with the bone crushing handshock, just to be rewarded with a slow motion fps speed? Ya, that sounds like a better "idea". And no, these are not "ideas" I came up with, these are facts by any definition. But I guess some people might prefer handshocky slow shooting bows, ya never know. I sure don't.
  That's called running out of strength. Osage should be able to make a shorter warbow because off all of  its supposed strengths.