traditional greek archery questions

[ballista]

 hello everyone,
 i'd love to find information  on greek bows, or bows from around that region, but i'm not finding about componests of the bow on the web. I was thinking of who to ask, or what to read, when PA popped up. if someone knows about primitive archery, it'll be here  as far as turk bows, which ive done a few searches of research on, they take a few years to make...........oi.so, if anyone yeilds information on greek bows, or even a cool horn +wood+sinew bow, im 100% devoted to creating a part of my herritage. thanks, -jimmy

[George Tsoukalas]

Try this. Are you Greek? Jawge
http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1008&context=classicsfacpub

[ballista]

yes i am, 50 percent- proud of it too i was born there, moved here when i was young so i dont rember much, are you?

[ballista]

 by the way, that post is way informitave, thanks alot

[George Tsoukalas]

Oh yes. Big time. Do you speak Greek? Jawge

[Dane]

Jawge, great paper, I glanced at it, and will read it later.

Ballista, I take it you like, or build, ballistas? Next year, I hope to start a gastrophetes, after I finish my two in-progress catapultas.

Dane

[Attigas]

kalispera ballista,

dunno whether or not you're interested in literature on the topic and these are available on the net,
but maybe the following might lead furtheron one way or the other. so here's a little bibliography on
ancient, e. g. greek artillery

G. T. Griffith, The Mercenaries of the Hellenistic World, London 1935
E. W. Marsden, Greek and Roman Artillery. Historical Development, Oxford 1969
Sir Ralph Payne-Gallwey, The Projectile Throwing Engines of the Ancients, London 1907 [ND London 1973].
Sir Ralph Payne-Gallwey, A Treatise on the Construction, Power and Management of Turkish and Other Oriental
Bows of Mediaeval and Later Times, London 1907 [ND London 1973]
Michael M. Sage, Warfare in Ancient Greece. A Sourcebook, London 1996
Hans van Wees, Greek Warfare. Myths and Realities, London 2004
Henry Balfour, The Archer’s Bow in the Homeric Poems, in: Journal of the Royal Archeological Institute 51 (1921), S. 289-309
Hilda L. Lorimer, Homer and the Monuments, London 1950

sto kalo

[ballista]

efharisto poli attigas, and i cannot thank you guys enough for the quick replies, this website is great my yia yia is teaching my greek at the moment, but I'm trying to learn spanish in school at the same time, pretty confusing.I had no idea there were other greek speaking people on PA!  as far as greek literature, im very proud of my herritage, and plan on learning as much as i can on the philosophy and historic markings greece has yeilded, aside from the language and teachings, they'e warfare tatics, and machines. *dane* as far as bakllista's go, im a huge enthuistast on war machines, although I like the history of them the most-are you seriously building a gastrophetes? im more into crossbow type stuff, although im not sure if theres a more usefull and cultural weapon in the world than the bow and arrow, or the blow gun for that matter. i have a replica of a greek(ish) bow im going to post on this topic in the next few days, although its not traditionally made, it looks alot like the bows i've seen from the searches i've done ( I bought it at the Flea market in lacrosse, wisconson) thank you again for the help in this search, ill try to post some pictures. thank you/efharisto -jimmy

[Dane]

Ballita, I'd say in ancient times, the sling was far more important in warfare than the bow or the ballista. But, I love the machines, and am building two right now, a small scorpio-minor and a later scorpion. Next year, I will be starting a gastrophetes. I don't think anyone has tried building one in 2,000 years. Schramm did build one, but his had a steel bow, not a proper composite bow.

Right now, I have a last important tool on order, a pouring shank for bronze casting, and then I can get the various parts cast, at last.

Attached is a recent shot of the 2" machine's spring frame, riveted with hand made copper rivets. I have a thread going, and will add to it when I have sufficient progress. I expect both machines to be ready for testing this winter or early spring.

Add to the book list the second Marsden volume, Technical Tretises. Both are important.

Dane

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[ballista]

thats an awesome piece, thats for rope tention right? i saw a really cool claw and hammer trigger mechanism, if i make a mounted crossbow, i'd probibly use that. theres a kid at my school who uses a bamboo crossbow exclusivley for small game, i had him in my backyard doing a little squirell hunting, no luck, but that crossbow could easly put a well sized groundhog down from what i saw. thanks, -jimmy

[George Tsoukalas]

Ya Yia Greek was the first language I spoke. If I didn't speak Greek to Ya Yia  I didn't speak to her. She was an immigrant as was my Dad. Long story. Ya Yia's  English vocabulary included about 5 words which I can not say here. Learn as much of it as you can. Greek is a great language, Ballista. Jawge

[Dane]

thats an awesome piece, thats for rope tention right? i saw a really cool claw and hammer trigger mechanism, if i make a mounted crossbow, i'd probibly use that. theres a kid at my school who uses a bamboo crossbow exclusivley for small game, i had him in my backyard doing a little squirell hunting, no luck, but that crossbow could easly put a well sized groundhog down from what i saw. thanks, -jimmy

Thanks, Jimmy. Yes, torsion powered, using horsehair rope in this case. Sinew rope is a future dream of mine, but that will be major work and cost - I estimate this machine will take between 150 and 200 feet of rope.

I am making the same type of trigger, Marsden illustrates them in his work, and about everyone has adopted this idea, even if no actual triggers have survived 2,000 years in the ground, as far as I know. The Greeks and Romans may have used something different, of course, or a variety of solutions. Much more is unknown than know.

Dane

[knightd]

Any of you guy's got some info on this trgger mec ??

[Mechslasher]

i was thinking the greeks as well as the early romans disdained the use of a bow.  there is a show on the history channel called weapon masters.  the show is about resurrecting ancient weapons technology and putting a modern twist on it to see if they can achieve greater efficiency.  the show on a couple weeks ago was about the roman scorpion.  very informative!  they actually compared the strength of different tortion materials like hair, man-made and natural rope, and sinew.

[Dane]

KnightD, I can email you some blueprints for one interpretation of how the trigger works, as well as other info Marsden wrote about. He based his work on an ancient manuscript by a Greek engineer, Heron. I'd have to scan some pages, but will be happy to do that if you want.

Mech, I don't think it was disdain, it was that perhaps the Romans were not a bow culture. They recruited plenty of archers as auxilia / auxillary legionaries from all over the Empire. They also recruited slingers from outside of Rome, and used these weapons very effectively for centuries. The engines were of Greek origin, but were continually improved through the entire time the empire existed, culminating with the iron framed machines.

Dane