New heat treating method??

[bradsmith2010]

selling a product based on exaggeration,, and discounting what others have done and are doing,,,, does not seem ok to me,,it seems like like a bad reflection on the guys doing it right,,

pulling a bow designed for 28 inch draw, to 25 inch, to achieve the 52 # draw weight,, would drasticlly reduce the performance,,
it would probably shoot in the 160's maybe,,wouldnt be a fair test of the bow,, shooting it with a 600 grain arrow would give a good idea of that the bow is doing,, probably 175ish,, respectable,,

in My opinion, which really doent matter to anyone but me,, the bows they are making seem very well made, and if durable are a great representation of what a wood bow can do,, and no need to exaggerate,, or misrepresent the product by saying it out perfroms any other bow,, as they do not,,

and since no one unbiased has tested the bows, the performance is questionable to me,,

send the best bow to a writer,,or another archer,, and let them test it, in a realistic setting and see how it does,,

send one to Marc or Steve,,and let them test it,,they are both honorable and would post honest results,,

 

[sleek]

selling a product based on exaggeration,, and discounting what others have done and are doing,,,, does not seem ok to me,,it seems like like a bad reflection on the guys doing it right,,

pulling a bow designed for 28 inch draw, to 25 inch, to achieve the 52 # draw weight,, would drasticlly reduce the performance,,
it would probably shoot in the 160's maybe,,wouldnt be a fair test of the bow,, shooting it with a 600 grain arrow would give a good idea of that the bow is doing,, probably 175ish,, respectable,,

in My opinion, which really doent matter to anyone but me,, the bows they are making seem very well made, and if durable are a great representation of what a wood bow can do,, and no need to exaggerate,, or misrepresent the product by saying it out perfroms any other bow,, as they do not,,

and since no one unbiased has tested the bows, the performance is questionable to me,,

send the best bow to a writer,,or another archer,, and let them test it, in a realistic setting and see how it does,,

send one to Marc or Steve,,and let them test it,,they are both honorable and would post honest results,,

Under drawn bows under perform for their draw weight.

Somehow, I dont think they will be sending Marc a bow to test lol

[bradsmith2010]

 well I thought that would be a good test,, my bad,,

[Bryce]

Are these the numbers they’re claiming? I get numbers like that without heat treating.... Am I misunderstanding the claim of performance?

[sleek]

well I thought that would be a good test,, my bad,,

Lol, if you do it all the time, those numbers can create a base line for you to reference,  but when you under draw, you rob yourself of some of the power stroke.

[Nasr]

They have made it very clear that they are not interested in proving anything. They want people to buy the dvd. But seems like if they were open to proving there bows they could give it to Steve. I am sure Steve will be an unbiased party or at least as much as humanly possible.

[tattoo dave]

This argumentative thread is an example of the dumb shit that has caused me to not post or visit much in the last couple years. It has solved nothing, proved nothing, and already wasted 10 minutes of my time reading some of it. It reminds me of all the ridiculous political arguments on Facebook.

I don’t visit this site to read arguments. Can we all skip the drama show.

Tattoo Dave

All I did was tell him his advertising sucked. Never once did I say he had nothing important.  He mocked me, made dishonest arguments,  and I very clearly put him in his place.  This is about his ego, not bows. I'd love to see his work. but his best is 180 fps, and he claims his best is THE best out there. Whatever, but still, maybe he is an average bow maker who actually figured a way to make his bows a little better. I'm listening....

Arguing, debating, discussing doesn’t matter, it happens. Weather you like it or not is also fine. If you don’t like it, switch threads or something bud. That shouldnt keep you from posting amigo. We’d love to hear from yah more!
Now maybe my views are different but I don’t other ppls critical comments and arguing whether it be about me or not bother me.
My view (and I know it’s not the same for everyone) is that is if i let nasty ppl and nasty words direct me and the way I feel then I’ve just given them some sort of influence over me and I’m not gonna let that happen to me. It’s my life and I control what I feel. Not others. So I simply don’t give others that power or influence by letting it bother me.

Bryce, I guess that was my point exactly. If folks don’t like his claims weather they’re bull shit claims or not, no one has to read his claims, statements, and for sure don’t need to buy his bows or dvd, and the admins for sure don’t need to let this carry on for 14 pages of bickering. Pat M, I’m definitely not surprised by the arguments, again that was my point. Haven’t been here in a while and here’s another  argument. This thread was not started by the guy who is making all those claims and statements. Don’t get me wrong, I’m definitely Not trying to defend him.  Anyway...

Tattoo Dave

[bradsmith2010]

quite a bit of information on bow performance ,,its a good read,,

[Bryce]

This argumentative thread is an example of the dumb shit that has caused me to not post or visit much in the last couple years. It has solved nothing, proved nothing, and already wasted 10 minutes of my time reading some of it. It reminds me of all the ridiculous political arguments on Facebook.

I don’t visit this site to read arguments. Can we all skip the drama show.

Tattoo Dave

All I did was tell him his advertising sucked. Never once did I say he had nothing important.  He mocked me, made dishonest arguments,  and I very clearly put him in his place.  This is about his ego, not bows. I'd love to see his work. but his best is 180 fps, and he claims his best is THE best out there. Whatever, but still, maybe he is an average bow maker who actually figured a way to make his bows a little better. I'm listening....

Arguing, debating, discussing doesn’t matter, it happens. Weather you like it or not is also fine. If you don’t like it, switch threads or something bud. That shouldnt keep you from posting amigo. We’d love to hear from yah more!
Now maybe my views are different but I don’t other ppls critical comments and arguing whether it be about me or not bother me.
My view (and I know it’s not the same for everyone) is that is if i let nasty ppl and nasty words direct me and the way I feel then I’ve just given them some sort of influence over me and I’m not gonna let that happen to me. It’s my life and I control what I feel. Not others. So I simply don’t give others that power or influence by letting it bother me.

Bryce, I guess that was my point exactly. If folks don’t like his claims weather they’re bull shit claims or not, no one has to read his claims, statements, and for sure don’t need to buy his bows or dvd, and the admins for sure don’t need to let this carry on for 14 pages of bickering. Pat M, I’m definitely not surprised by the arguments, again that was my point. Haven’t been here in a while and here’s another  argument. This thread was not started by the guy who is making all those claims and statements. Don’t get me wrong, I’m definitely Not trying to defend him.  Anyway...

Tattoo Dave

Ok I see where you’re coming from.

[Marc St Louis]

selling a product based on exaggeration,, and discounting what others have done and are doing,,,, does not seem ok to me,,it seems like like a bad reflection on the guys doing it right,,

pulling a bow designed for 28 inch draw, to 25 inch, to achieve the 52 # draw weight,, would drasticlly reduce the performance,,
it would probably shoot in the 160's maybe,,wouldnt be a fair test of the bow,, shooting it with a 600 grain arrow would give a good idea of that the bow is doing,, probably 175ish,, respectable,,

in My opinion, which really doent matter to anyone but me,, the bows they are making seem very well made, and if durable are a great representation of what a wood bow can do,, and no need to exaggerate,, or misrepresent the product by saying it out perfroms any other bow,, as they do not,,

and since no one unbiased has tested the bows, the performance is questionable to me,,

send the best bow to a writer,,or another archer,, and let them test it, in a realistic setting and see how it does,,

send one to Marc or Steve,,and let them test it,,they are both honorable and would post honest results,,

Under drawn bows under perform for their draw weight.

Somehow, I dont think they will be sending Marc a bow to test lol

And I wouldn't want them to.  Steve on the other hand is a perfect candidate for unbiased testing

[sleek]

selling a product based on exaggeration,, and discounting what others have done and are doing,,,, does not seem ok to me,,it seems like like a bad reflection on the guys doing it right,,

pulling a bow designed for 28 inch draw, to 25 inch, to achieve the 52 # draw weight,, would drasticlly reduce the performance,,
it would probably shoot in the 160's maybe,,wouldnt be a fair test of the bow,, shooting it with a 600 grain arrow would give a good idea of that the bow is doing,, probably 175ish,, respectable,,

in My opinion, which really doent matter to anyone but me,, the bows they are making seem very well made, and if durable are a great representation of what a wood bow can do,, and no need to exaggerate,, or misrepresent the product by saying it out perfroms any other bow,, as they do not,,

and since no one unbiased has tested the bows, the performance is questionable to me,,

send the best bow to a writer,,or another archer,, and let them test it, in a realistic setting and see how it does,,

send one to Marc or Steve,,and let them test it,,they are both honorable and would post honest results,,

Under drawn bows under perform for their draw weight.

Somehow, I dont think they will be sending Marc a bow to test lol

And I wouldn't want them to.  Steve on the other hand is a perfect candidate for unbiased testing

I'm not surprised, and I agree, Steve is the man for the job.

By the way Marc, what's been your fastest bow to date?

[Marc St Louis]

Selfbow is in the low 190's.  To make sure I didn't overdraw I would only use 28" arrows and the arrows were weighed at 10 GPP.  The release was a flight style release

[Marc St Louis]

I was going through some of the old threads/files I had saved from the old, now defunct, message board and found this one Elm recurve I had posted about.  It was 64" N to N and pulled 58# @ 28".  I tested this bow with a 540 grain arrow and had an average of 196 fps with a high of 199 fps, tested with a FF string.  For some reason I lost the pictures that goes with the file but this bow here was very similar

[bradsmith2010]

I notice there is no deflex, are the defex designs as fast as the bow you are showing here ,, just curious,,

[PatM]

I remember that bow for Dano.   There was a shorter HHB of similar design that also reached similar speed.