Timber hitch of FF on war bow?

[Frodolf]

I've just started making heavy bows, and the first three 80+# bows so far has gone well (juniper, hazel, elm). Frustration in stringing the bows led me to buying my first roll of Fast Flight +. And my gosh, it's so much easier to work with than B-50!

I have a problem though. It seems my standard "timber hitch in the bottom nock"-thing doesn't really work very well with FF and heavy bows. The knot often slips, despite three turns in the knot, and if it doesn't in cinches down on the bow so hard that is really crushes the wood (I use horn overlays and the wood being crushed is on the belly side of the nock). Also, the string tends to get crushed as well, looking kind of thrashed and crushed when I unstring the bow.

What do you guys do about this? Do you ignore it? Do you tie some other knot? Do you make "endless" strings with double loops? Then what about tillering strings? Do you beef up the loop and end of the string any? 

[Del the cat]

I make continuous loop (double loop) strings so they can't slip. That would also solve the belly wood damage problem.
Full horn nocks work well, they are a pain in the backside until you have done a few.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1VHUkDEGJA
Del

[Frodolf]

I see. That' a very good video, thanks!

But what about when you're tillering the bow, going from long string to low brace to full brace, before getting the horn nocks on? Do you have various continuous loop strings for various lengths, or to you use a timber hitch or some other knot/hitch which doesn't cinch the bow as hard?

[Del the cat]

See previous videos!
Here at about 3mins 30 secs...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8OjC7HV4Bk
I have one V long string with big loops and a toroidal piece of aluminium which I thread the string through to shorten it.
Del

[WillS]

My 2c worth - I have a couple of different lengths of paracord with loops at both end for tillering, and I make a new string for each new bow once they're tillered to brace height.

The paracord tillering strings support bows of any weight well past 200lb, and you don't usually have loads of different length staves in the first place - most of the time you cut a piece to length depending on what you're making.  That means you can have about 3 different tillering strings of paracord and you never need to keep adjusting them.  The exception to this is when you have to pike a bow, or you're working with something unusually short/long.

If you can make a Flemish twist bowstring with two laid-in loops, you also shouldn't have a problem with the actual bowstring.  After a few practice attempts, its fairly easy to knock up a finished bowstring in about 5 minutes without even using a jig of any sort, and if you have a way of knowing how long to make a string depending on the finished bow, again there's no faffing about with changing lengths etc.

To clarify, this is my procedure:

1.  Cut stave to normal length (77" for example if making a self Yew warbow)
2.  Select paracord tillering string for 77" stave
3.  Tiller to brace height
4.  Make Flemish twist string with loops at both end for 77" bow using formula for strand length
5.  Fit string and brace bow
6.  Tiller to 29.5", watch bow explode in spectacular fashion, swear loudly and return to step 1.

[Frodolf]

Haha! Or you just tiller it to 29" and call it a day! :-)

So the consensus is to make a proper loop in each end of the string. Got it. And I guess a knot is out of the question, like a bowline knot or something like that, to create the second loop?

On a related note, do you guys ever braid loops instead of just twist them? I was experimenting with this a little bit the other day: I started with making a three-ply flemish twist loop, but instead of twisting the three short and three long together to complete the loop I simply braided them together, like you would when braiding hair. No twist. My little test seemed to hold up well, but I can't recall hearing about anyone doing it that way. A benefit of this would be that the braid can't get untwisted, like a twist can, when twisting a loop in the other end of the string.

[WillS]

Well that was just my method. I know plenty of people who use a bowyers knot (timber hitch) at the other end.  In fact I think it's probably more common to see a heavy bow use a bowyers knot than double loop. 

Personally I find them fiddly and a pain to get off, but certainly with side nocks they are far better, and I guess with practice they become just as easy as double loops.

[WillS]

As a quick addition - its also quite common to combine the two into one loop - you lay a proper loop into the string as if making a double loop string, but then pass the string through the loop so you get the advantage of the self-tightening loop which works exceptionally well with side nocks.

[poplar600]

@Will

How many of these yew bows do you have under your belt? Just curious.

Harvest your own yew?

[WillS]

Honestly no idea!  I tend to just make them when I feel like it, so I can't really keep track.  Some get shot until they break, some get given away to people, some get made and are too light or too odd looking to sell/gift so they go on the rack and get forgotten.  I'm still learning so I consider all of them practice bows I guess.  Maybe if I sell them properly at some stage I'll have a better idea of how many I make but I'm not that bothered. 

I've never made a laminate before, and only really use ash or yew or a few other odd bits and pieces I come across.  I'd say aside from maybe 10 or so bows made of various white woods the rest have been yew as its easy for me to get.

Yes, I have cut and seasoned my own.  In fact I think I've only ever bought one actual stave and the occasional set of logs.  Its not rare in the UK, so there's not really any reason to pay somebody else to find it for me.  I'll buy timber if its exceptionally good or exceptionally cheap of course...

[poplar600]

Honestly no idea!  I tend to just make them when I feel like it, so I can't really keep track.  Some get shot until they break, some get given away to people, some get made and are too light or too odd looking to sell/gift so they go on the rack and get forgotten.  I'm still learning so I consider all of them practice bows I guess.  Maybe if I sell them properly at some stage I'll have a better idea of how many I make but I'm not that bothered. 

I've never made a laminate before, and only really use ash or yew or a few other odd bits and pieces I come across.  I'd say aside from maybe 10 or so bows made of various white woods the rest have been yew as its easy for me to get.

Yes, I have cut and seasoned my own.  In fact I think I've only ever bought one actual stave and the occasional set of logs.  Its not rare in the UK, so there's not really any reason to pay somebody else to find it for me.  I'll buy timber if its exceptionally good or exceptionally cheap of course...

I'm a noob to bowmaking.

Nice that you cut and season your own. 2-5 years is a lot of waiting though!

[Marc St Louis]

I have found it next to impossible to use a timber hitch with FF on heavy weight bows.  The material is just too slippery

[Del the cat]

I'm a noob to bowmaking.

Nice that you cut and season your own. 2-5 years is a lot of waiting though!

IT DOESN'T TAKE 2-5 YEARS.
This sort of misinformation just puts off aspiring bowyers. There is a lot of nonsense out there.
1 year will season a even a warbow sized piece of timber if it is sensibly reduced and stored. Maybe it takes longer if you have whole logs un-split... but that's just a bonkers way to season wood for bows. (other opinions are available... terms and conditions apply)
Del

[WillS]

I think "dry" and "seasoned" are two different things Del, which is probably where the alternative opinions come from.   Dry takes maybe a year or so. Seasoned takes... Seasons.  Hence the name. 

You can let a bow lose all its moisture and become equal with the RH but that doesn't necessarily mean its "seasoned". 

[Del the cat]

I think "dry" and "seasoned" are two different things Del, which is probably where the alternative opinions come from.   Dry takes maybe a year or so. Seasoned takes... Seasons.  Hence the name. 

You can let a bow lose all its moisture and become equal with the RH but that doesn't necessarily mean its "seasoned".

If it's had a year, then it's been through 4 seasons ... it's not just about time, it's about conditions.
5 Years under a tarpaulin will do nothing but encourage rot. One year in an open sided structure with good airflow and out of the frost will produce decent timber if it is roughed to an appropriate size (say quartered or halfed depending on log size.
Del