ERC is great bow wood!

[Sasquatch]

I agree,  about this piece of wood being flawed some how.  Pearly is a great bowyer. however there is more to designing a bow then just width, mass, length.  One would also have to consider the past experiences with the wood.  History states that ERC is tension weak.  Therefore, a backing, would be applicable, or trapping the limbs(smaller on compression side).  I also don't understand why people ( I don't know if pearly did this?) take it down to an inner ring, Back it with raw hide, and call it good. IMO that is a tricky move to preform, because I feel like we can't follow the grain perfectly, no matter how hard we try.   So on a wood like ERC IMO if you want to go down a couple rings, then use a very strong backing like bamboo, flax, sinew.

[mikekeswick]

I'm not trying to start crap.  Because you are an awesome bowyer and have many more bows than me.  I feel that your bows are perfect in every way.   However, I feel like in any situation when a bow breaks it is the bowyers fault.  Stop passing blame to the wood.  I feel like you were trying to fit it into some specific dimensions  probably more suited to a wood with more specific gravity.   You are right ERC is not the "best" bow wood.  But a bow good bow can be made with it, as long as it is properly planned out.     pearl drums, I really do respect your work, and hope to meet you one day.  But this was clearly your fault, or an unseen flaw in the wood. Which in the later case you would be happy to make another because you knew it wasn't your fault.

Good luck getting that stubborn headed German to admit he made a mistake,or was even partially at fault.   

+1 

[RyanY]

That's true. Its still a significant difference, especially when I think about it blowing at such a low draw weight and length. I just find it hard to believe that ERC needs to be backed. Can't say I have much experience with it though. Anyone want to hook me up with some so I can find out? 

[mikekeswick]

You know what I meant before......juniper is transformed by backing with sinew as is yew.
Most sinew backed bows have their backs violated making them flat/smooth enough for sinew.....I bet a violated back wouldn't bend very far before breaking 

[blackhawk]

That's true. Its still a significant difference, especially when I think about it blowing at such a low draw weight and length. I just find it hard to believe that ERC needs to be backed. Can't say I have much experience with it though. Anyone want to hook me up with some so I can find out? 

I might have a piece for ya from proven backed stock. If ERC stands a chance of being unbacked its this batch...the best I've ever seen. But what's that gonna prove if only one is made? You'll have to chase a ring if i find one  its doable,n I've done it a few times n wood you make it the same dimensions as a backed bow should be like pearly did?. No one wants to see a 4" wide bent board/paddle/whatever its called,and then you call it a bow and say so what do I win..lol.       

[adb]

Here's a warbow done by MSL. 120#. ERC. Unbacked. http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,3256.msg47437.html#msg47437

I think Pearlie got a bad piece of wood. It happens

[Josh B]

I agree, that stave wasn't gonna make a bow.   Chickenhawk brings up a good point about teaching the wood to bend SLOWLY.  I haven't built bows with pearly, so I can't speak of his patience and techniques.  However, even if he did rush it a bit, he wasn't pushing it very hard when she blew.  As far as the chasing a ring goes, good quality ERC don't give a wit about ring violations for hunting weight or less.  Warbow weight would probably be a little different story.  When I say good quality, I mean tops of limbs and not trunk wood.  Trunk wood might stand a chance with a good backing, but in comparison to the limbs, trunkwood sucks as a selfbow.  ERC is a softwood so the wood structure is a lot different than hardwoods.  Look at the carnage picture.  This wood didn't rip down the ring like most hardwoods do when they blow.  This one ripped apart in every possible direction possible regardless of ring structure and grain.  Every Juniper stave that I've blown up has done the same.  That observation was what led me to purposely violating the rings to see if the back would hold together.  Guess what...it held together just fine over and over and over.  The only thing I have found to be instantly fatal is heartwood showing on the back.  Awhile back, I made a character ERC Elb.   In one 12 inch section of the working limb I cut through seventeen rings.  I was careful to feather them in, but that bow is still shooting just fine today.  I shot 2 to 3 hundred arrows from it this last Sunday.  All that to say that even with good fun arm chair bowyering going on and "that's a fact theorizing"  being contributed, I can't help but believe that this particular piece of wood was never gonna make a selfbow no matter who tried whatever techniques.  Just my .02
Josh

[PEARL DRUMS]

Glad to see this sparked 6 pages of conversation. 

[PEARL DRUMS]

However, I feel like in any situation when a bow breaks it is the bowyers fault.  Stop passing blame to the wood. 

Ill wait for you to build a few hundred and we'll talk again.

[paulsemp]

Snap

[PEARL DRUMS]

Hey that's the same sound this bow made! 

[sleek]

I have yet to make a bow of erc yet either. Always in many pieces. Dont feel bad pearly, if I cant do it I wouldnt expect you too be able to either. 

[missilemaster]

However, I feel like in any situation when a bow breaks it is the bowyers fault.  Stop passing blame to the wood. 

Ill wait for you to build a few hundred and we'll talk again.

  Yea, he is right Chris. Its all your fault it broke , so quit blaming an inferior piece of wood!

[Onebowonder]

Reading this diatribe has me thinking the majority of the ERC I have put up and drying is going to get turned into drum frames and cooking spoons instead of bows. <sigh>  Apparently I've been blessed with a bunch of inferior quality wood!   

OneBow

[Sasquatch]

However, I feel like in any situation when a bow breaks it is the bowyers fault.  Stop passing blame to the wood. 

Ill wait for you to build a few hundred and we'll talk again.

The only thing bending the wood is the bowyer...  Sticks don't break themselves..      If you kept reading you would have seen that I mentioned that if it was NOT your fault then there must have been a flaw.  In this case you would be happy to try your hand at another stave.   IMO even if there is a flaw in wood then it is up to the bowyer to compensate for it.