ERC is great bow wood!

[PEARL DRUMS]

Who knows if this would've survived being a bit wider and backed..we won't ever know. But it just might have. ERC rarely ever just lifts a splinter or crack and not come apart. When it does so it comes apart into pieces as shown here. A backing could've kept it from lifting that splinter and exploding. Its a very elastic wood,and can bend very far before breaking as long as its backed. Being unbacked in my crude  bend tests with it it just doesn't go very far at all before breaking in tension. Just like this one didnt go very far before breaking. Its of my opinion that "chances" are that this isn't 100% the woods fault.

One other thing is that you can't "rush" this wood when bending/tillering it. You can't treat it like osage,yew,or hickory for example. It needs to be patiently taught how to bend,and thoroughly exercised as its being tillered. And the rule of not bending it any further than when the teeniest tineiest slightest hinge is seen must be adhered to.  You can't go to first bracing it,and saying that looks good and yanking it back to 20"+. Sorry but it don't matter how good a bowyer someone is,you just don't go making a ERC bow(let alone unbacked) in two hours. But pearly isn't a "patient" bowyer,and ERC is def not made to his liking and style of bowmaking or personality. Hopefully no offense is taken pal. ERC isn't for everyones style and how they make bows. ERC gets such a bad rep,but I think a lot of it is just as much the person as it is the wood if not more actually.

Sure it isn't a great "selfbow" wood,but if treated right it can make a great backed bow still.

All I read was blah, blah, blah and a ton of assumptions. No offense I hope?

[paulsemp]

let the cat fight begin

[blackhawk]

None taken

My post wasn't "quite" aimed at ya...it was more of a trying to even things out instead of it being a one sided ERC sucks bashing. Also its for those who do there research and come across this thread as it is good advice of how to use ERC the right way,and what NOT to do.

In layman's terms:

Treat it right,and odds are good it will treat you right back.

If ya wanna go into what I think you did wrong we can 

[bubby]

This is gonna get good

[blackhawk]

let the cat fight begin

Ya know at the same time were doing our normal daily talk via texts of what's up n what were doing etc... 

[blackhawk]

This is gonna get good

Hopefully Chris is feeling as spunky as I am today 

[PEARL DRUMS]

The moral of the story is simply this: 66" ntn - 30# - POW. That's 15# per 33" of limb. A pine yard stick can handle that, green or seasoned! We aren't talking hunting weight in this instance, it was a kiddy weight bow at best. I could have spent 6 hours rubbing its belly nicely and asking it for strength and courage to hold together, and it still would have blown. Time spent in this instance is irrelevant. Many of your points are dead nuts in a different situation with the same wood.

[Knoll]

Glad to know it didn't backfire on ya.

[TimBo]

Well, I will go ahead and try to make my ERC ELB...maybe I will find out if I am patient or just slow! 

[paulsemp]

he probably dry fire it. it wouldn't be the first time he did it I've seen him dry fire before

[osage outlaw]

[Sasquatch]

I'm not trying to start crap.  Because you are an awesome bowyer and have many more bows than me.  I feel that your bows are perfect in every way.   However, I feel like in any situation when a bow breaks it is the bowyers fault.  Stop passing blame to the wood.  I feel like you were trying to fit it into some specific dimensions  probably more suited to a wood with more specific gravity.   You are right ERC is not the "best" bow wood.  But a bow good bow can be made with it, as long as it is properly planned out.     pearl drums, I really do respect your work, and hope to meet you one day.  But this was clearly your fault, or an unseen flaw in the wood. Which in the later case you would be happy to make another because you knew it wasn't your fault.   

[blackhawk]

I'm not trying to start crap.  Because you are an awesome bowyer and have many more bows than me.  I feel that your bows are perfect in every way.   However, I feel like in any situation when a bow breaks it is the bowyers fault.  Stop passing blame to the wood.  I feel like you were trying to fit it into some specific dimensions  probably more suited to a wood with more specific gravity.   You are right ERC is not the "best" bow wood.  But a bow good bow can be made with it, as long as it is properly planned out.     pearl drums, I really do respect your work, and hope to meet you one day.  But this was clearly your fault, or an unseen flaw in the wood. Which in the later case you would be happy to make another because you knew it wasn't your fault.

Good luck getting that stubborn headed German to admit he made a mistake,or was even partially at fault.   

[RyanY]

With regards to dimensions of Pearlie's bow, it's possible this was a particularly light piece of ERC but I don't think that it was underbuilt at just over an inch wide. The only ERC bow I've made was a monster. 80#@29" and 1.5" wide at its widest. At 69" long it's only 3" longer than the bow here. If Chris' bow was just an inch wide it would be ~33% narrower than mine and should be approximately 33% lighter. That would still make a 52# bow. Taking length into account and wood variation, you still have over a 20# difference to account for. And lastly we know that the bow blew at ~30#@22". That's far less of a bend, even for a shorter bow. Of course wood is highly variable within a species. But seeing the bows I've seen from ERC and hearing this, I just don't think that piece of wood was ever going to become a bow.

[blackhawk]

@Ryoon....wouldn't your comparison numbers be off and moot seeing how yours is backed and pearlys was not?