Arrowhead Weight and Draw Weight

[JackCrafty]

Lately I've been making lots of stone hunting points and the most common question I get is, "How heavy do you think the arrowhead should be?"  The lightest stone hunting point I make (1" wide) is around 35 grains.  The heaviest is around 85 grains.

So, I propose the following rule of thumb:  The weight of the arrowhead (in grains) should be no more than your draw weight.  For example:  Draw weight of 50# means an arrowhead no more than 50 grains.

What do you guys think?

[JackCrafty]

If one of you has already proposed this idea, I apologize for not seeing it.  I've not been reading much lately.

[Chippintuff]

That's a good question. The point weight would also affect the spine strength. I would like to see what the archers think.

WA

[JackCrafty]

OK, it looks like this thread will die an early death (40 views and no responses), so I will add some more of my thoughts in an attempt to rescue it.

The vast majority of the people I talk to about arrowheads are familiar with steel broadheads and the typical weight increments.  Most will say they are accustomed to 100 grains or 150 grains or whatever.  Some will say they have friends that use 150 grain stone points and are very successful.  Some know all about the way foreshafts work, how a longer arrow affects spine, how the arrowhead weight affects spine, and so on.  And some are completely in the dark about using stone points (or even steel broadheads) for hunting.

Many people I talk to have read the many posts on here about using stone arrowheads and they say they understand the concept but are unclear about what is best.  They ask me if I know what is best.  I tell them I'll point them in the right direction but they will have to experiment on their own to find what's best.  (not really what they want to hear)

So, my goal is to decrease the learning curve and save the "experimentation" phase.  This means that I will need to take all the information I've got floating around in my head and nail down a quick and easy solution.

I think I have come up with a solution but it may go against what many archers have come to accept as a "tried and true" system.  Namely, that broadheads are broadheads regardless of material (talking about two-edged blades).  They all basically work the same. They all basically look the same. And they all basically conform to the principles laid down by archers who were there at the beginning of the modern archery "revival".

Anyway, to make my point, I think most "traditional" thought on stone broadheads is garbage.  Bottom line:  stone broadheads for arrows should be light in weight and thin in cross section.  They should be 1" wide (or whatever) when required by law but not any wider.  And they should be made to have a minimal effect on arrow flight.  This means that the weight of the arrow should be in the shafting and not in the point.

OK, that's it.

[JackCrafty]

Thanks Chip.  You responded while I was writing... 

[wizardgoat]

ive only been using field tips, usually 125 grain. i always thought it i wanted to hunt with the same arrow,  id replace the tip with a stone point of the same weight, but your suggesting it should be much lower.
Im still pretty new to matching my arrows with bows, and never knew a heavy head could affect my spine weight

[mullet]

Patrick;

 It doesn't matter to me what the point weighs as long as it flies good out of the Bow I'm shooting.

[JackCrafty]

Wizard, stone is much lighter than metal by volume.  That's the main reason for using lightweight stone heads.  If you were to match the weight in stone, the arrowhead would be bulkier than the steel point.  The arrow will fly well, but the penetration may not be as efficient.  Some have posted their frustration with this here on the forum.

Eddie, that's like saying that is doesn't matter what percentage of alcohol a brew has as long as it gets you drunk.  Thats' OK, of course.  But from my perspective, everyone looks like they're drinking watered-down cheap wine.   

[Outbackbob48]

Patrick, have only killed a few deer with stone, so far I am with the narrow and thin crowd, and no hump at the point hafting transition area. In Pa. min. point width is 7/8"and I would like to experiment narrower someday. So for me it is narrow, thin and smooth transition. Bob

[JackCrafty]

Yeah, 7/8" wide is the law in TX too.

[caveman2533]

I know Ralph Conrad could give a great perspective on this, He has killed I think 22 deer with stone some with the same arrow. I remeber asking him about this and I think his answer was it really doesn't matter if the arrow weights are matched or even. As long as they fly good. He had written on the arrows I think the weight and if I remember correctly they varied quite a bit. I could try to get a hold of him and see if he can answer for us. I have very little experience with it.

[aaron]

I dont think I agree with your rule of thumb that an arrowhead should be equal in grains to the draw weight in pounds, nor that the head should be light so that it does not affect the flight of the arrow. If the second part were true, then arrowheads of very light weight would produce the best arrow flight. Instead , we find that good flight is a combination of static spine, length, tip weight and shaft weight. No matter the material, an arrowhead is the right weight when , combined with these other factors, we get good flight. It seems to me that to get an arrow with a 50 grain tip to fly well, we would need either a very long or very weak arrow. But most of us shoot arrows that are about 30 inches long, and I have never tried it, but to get a 30 inch arrow with a 50 grain tip to fly well out of a "regular" selfbow, we'd need a very weak spine.
When I make stone tipped arrows, I try to make them as thick as I can, about 11/32nd. I also sometimes add weight in the shaft or hafting materials. Even with these efforts, I feel that my arrows still fly like a stiff arrow (tail right, and impacting left of where I expect. This is one reason I have switched to steel points and weighted adapters for hunting.
Now I realise that in the old days , millions of animals were killed with light points. But I still believe that a combination of factors will contribute to good arrow flight, and that there is no "one size fits all" rule for point weight.
Patric i am always willing to change my opinion and discuss things. I would love tohear more of what you have to say on this. Your opinion is highly valued here.J

[aaron]

I do agree with your idea that if we were to make a stone arrowhead weighing 150 grains or so that it would be so big as to impede penetration and even cause some "wind planing". So I guess that I have come to the conclusion that when we hunt with stone points we have to settle for less than perfect flight. Our successes in hunting tell me that this less than perfect flight is still good enough for hunting. Yes I have killed with a stone point, but I dont think I ever realised how well an arrow can fly until I started to play around with bareshafting arrows with various point weight , length, and spine. Onec I had tried many combinations, I realised that I was achieving better flight. I think that the bareshaft test is a great way to see how well tuned your set up is. Have you ever bareshaft tested an arrow with a 50 grain point? I have not.

[mullet]

I know Ralph Conrad could give a great perspective on this, He has killed I think 22 deer with stone some with the same arrow. I remeber asking him about this and I think his answer was it really doesn't matter if the arrow weights are matched or even. As long as they fly good. He had written on the arrows I think the weight and if I remember correctly they varied quite a bit. I could try to get a hold of him and see if he can answer for us. I have very little experience with it.

I don't understand your reply, Patrick. Seems to me if you kill what you are shooting at with whatever grain point you have , it works.

 I haven't killed a deer with a stone point but did put one that weighed around 100 grns through the forehead of a hog. And another point that weighed about 145grn killed a turkey at ten yards. I think the distances we shoot at it doesn't matter as long as your arrow flies good for the distance you are shooting.

 I like beer and if it tastes good I don't care about the alcohol. I'd rather drink a beer with dinner then Sweet tea.

[Outbackbob48]

If you use shoot shafts or cane spine doesn't seem as critical as parrel dowell shafts, something about the natural taper of said arrows seems to help in the spine. I thing that heavy points would help but thin bases and narrow width just don't end up  very heavy compared to steel. If they fly good I shoot what ever wt. my heads come out at. Also I will put light heads on heavy shafts and heavy heads on light shafts, I try and keep total weight close to 550 grains for my 50 # bows. I like around 10 grains per pound of bow weight. I guess what I am saying is that I am more concerned about total weight than the actual weight of stone heads. Thin base, narrow and sharp. ;DJust my .02 worth. Bob