Why I think osage is an inferior bow wood...

[rossfactor]

"There is no limit to what wood can do. The boundaries lie within the users tastes, not the wood."

I do not believe this is true. 

For example you couldn't have made your poplar bow 50" long and 1 inch wide, and gotten the same draw length and width.  The bow would have broke.  And if you needed a bow 50" long and 1 inch wide you would have to use a different wood.  Regardless of your taste in design. And for many people who survived with bows that had NEEDS, not just tastes for design. End of story.

Gabe

[rossfactor]

I mean "they" had needs, not "that" had needs. Sorry.

[blackhawk]

Apparently your not speaking clearly..cus read what you just said..you said that a well designed bow won't break...that's a bunch of malarkey

[blackhawk]

"There is no limit to what wood can do. The boundaries lie within the users tastes, not the wood."

I do not believe this is true. 

For example you couldn't have made your poplar bow 50" long and 1 inch wide, and gotten the same draw length and width.  The bow would have broke.  And if you needed a bow 50" long and 1 inch wide you would have to use a different wood.  Regardless of your taste in design. And for many people who survived with bows that had NEEDS, not just tastes for design. End of story.

Gabe


YESSSSS!!!!!!! I think your now understanding me Gabe

[rossfactor]

Me?

I don't think I said that. 

Gabe

[blackhawk]

No Ryan said that a well designed bow won't break

[rossfactor]

No revelations here Blackhawk.  Just typing what I've though for a long time. Been making bow for only 10 years, but that's enough time to stew on ths stuff a bit.    I still don't worship your yellow King.     But I'd like to try it a few more times.

Gabe

[RyanY]

Rossfactor, what i mean is the degree to which we can get wood to bend, not specifying dimensions. I don't think you understand what I'm saying either.

blackhawk, I'm waiting for a reason. A well designed bow won't break. If it breaks it's not well designed. Unless of course you were going for firewood.

[toomanyknots]

Too many...please find a quote from me that says osage is the end all wood...

Gee, ok:

"Anyways...I'm out and don't need to explain myself anymore even tho much more can be said...I know osage is best. <------ that's a period"

From page 3 of this thread, in your 3rd post from the top, right here: http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,36150.30.html

Also, you never answered me, you said on page 2 ",and can make ANY design out there and do it well," So, is a warbow not a legitimate bow in your world? Since osage is the best wood, does it also make the best warbows?, that aren't handshocky, or sluggish at all?

[rossfactor]

Well, I understand the that we can get wood to all wood to bend about the same amount given design modification.  But for bows to meet peoples NEEDs, dimensions are sometimes important.

If we have 20 pages of thread arguing that lighter woods need to be wider to bend the same amount, we should all be ashemed of ourselves. 

And if we can get 5 or 10 fps more from well designed bow with a lighter wood, that doesn't make it a better bow wood necessarily to meet someones needs.

That is why I said, way back somewhere that first you gotta define what you need your bow to do before you build it.  But depending on that answer, design is only part of the equation.

Gabe

[RyanY]

TMK, in defense of the point I'm trying to make, osage can indeed make a good warbow without handshock. Because of it's density it would need to be more elliptically tillered than lighter woods so there's less moving mass. Because of osage's density it can make great warbows.

[RyanY]

ross, thats very true but design can take those important dimensions into account. Just because my poplar bow didn't have a handle, doesn't mean it couldn't. I was challenged to make it bend through out its length so I had to adjust accordingly.

[blackhawk]

You got a lot more bows to make if you honestly think the sole reason alone a bow breaks is because it was not designed correctly.

And I've already given you umpteen reasons,and so has a lot of other folks...if ya want the rest you'll have to buy my book cus I can't disclose any more information.

[toomanyknots]

TKM, in defense of the point I'm trying to make, osage can indeed make a good warbow without handshock. Because of it's density it would need to be more elliptically tillered than lighter woods so there's less moving mass. Because of osage's density it can make great warbows.

Woah, that was just your 666th post,... Hmmmm, wonder if that means anything...    Anyhoo, osage is (I guess IMO) a horrible choice for a warbow. In a triple laminate I can see it being put to good use. But as a selfbow bow, it is just all kinds of dense. For heavier bows it can take the compression for sure, but handshock and fps loss is just inescapable no matter how much you reduce outer mass, till the dang thing is just whip tillered even. I think an elliptical tiller can be a good choice for a light draw weight longbow. An elliptical tiller will slightly reduce handshock, but then stack will be the result, that in lesser weights would not be noticeable, and stack is definitely not to be desired in a warbow. It will also end up taking more set than an even bending and even working bow. You really think for a 32" draw, you should keep the handle stiff? I'm not saying you can't get an alright longbow in general out of osage, I have 3 in the works right now, ridiculously, but these 3 longbows all have more than 3" reflex, that will add a bit of umph to the early draw weight to make up for things. And although I love my osage longbows, they never shoot as good as my mulberry, silver maple, hackberry, even ash, longbows. Yes, even ash, 2 1/2" of set and all. I can make a hackberry longbow that will smoke the living crap out of any osage longbow you could make at the same draw weight, and that is NOT a challenge, because I know you would take me up on that right away,  . Anyway, my main argument was simply that osage was not the king of bow woods in all scenarios, such as, a warbow, not that you couldn't make a warbow out of it. 

[RyanY]

I've never sad that the only reason a bow breaks is because of improper design. I said that if a bow is designed perfectly then it won't break. You claimed that your bows were designed to the best of your abilities and they still broke. If the reason wasn't poor design then what was it? What you're saying is that a near perfect bow broke. What was the flaw if it wasn't design? It didn't have to do with the properties of the wood because those can be accounted for in design. My guess is you weren't making them as well as you thought you were.