stone points and turkeys

[mullet]

Dazv,
 You can serrate a point by setting up each serration with a platform and making real serrations, like what Shannon does with his Pinetrees.

 Or you can finish your point edge and come back with a very fine, horse shoe nail and go perpendicular to  the edge and make little micro-serrations by just flicking the very edge of the blade area.

 You can also make a virgin edge by alternating your flaking at an angle from the tip towards the base by flip-flopping the point and not touching it up with any tool. To me, this is the sharpest.

 I also believe notching and crisscrossing the sinew to tie it on impedes penetration on anything I'm shooting at. After all, who cares what happens to the point after you hit what you're shooting at?

[crooketarrow]

 TWISTED I bow hunted gobblers with selfbows for 21 years so far. I have KILLED 15 ,4 of those were wIth knapped heads. Last year I arrowed 2 GOBBLERS one with a trade point and a 2 year old with a DOG WOOD ARROW and OSIDIN POINT. 2 of my 4 of my knaped point kills were with a bow in the mid 60's another with a 56# and the one last year was with a 53#.
  Although I never have had a pass though with a stone head on a gobbler all went to the feathers. I don't shoot wing bone shot's. No matter what you've been told or read it by far not the best arrow shot. All my side shots are right at the top of the drum stick this is where the heart lungs are to don't have to get through those over lapping heavy wing feathers. Plus if you take out his leg or legs he can't get the momention to get off the ground.

   Here's another little tip that will help you out when setting up with a self bow or any weapon for that matter. Indains lived by the bow and they did'nt have any special powers. And have you ever seen there bow's and arrows very simple. Indians used this set up on deer as well as gobblers. This go's against all you see on TV or have read.
   You have to set up to where the gobbler has to go past you. That means setting up with your back to the comeing gobbller or buck. Were taught to set up where you can see the bird coming. IF YOU CAN SEE HIM HE CAN SEE YOU. Plus after he go's by you his attion is to his front alowing you to draw.
  I my granddad only shot gun hunt gobblers and had 312 gobblers in 92 springs. He set up like this 99% of the time. I've killed 31 with a shot gun 2 with a compound 2 with a recurve and 15 with a selfbow. Called up dozens for friends and guided haveing clients take another 60 gobblers. NOT TO SAY LETTING DOZENS AND DOZENS OF JAKES WALK. Not to mention most of the 36 selfbow bucks were taken like this. I'D SAY 95 % of bucks and gobblers WERE TAKEN USEING THIS SET UP.
   Give this a try. My grandad roll over in his grave if he knew what I'd just told.

[soy]

I agree with crooketarrow.i only shoot at two places, from the beard up and the drummys.everything else is to protected especially the wing the thick feathers plus they are away from the body so it absorbs a lot of tje force before it even hits the bird.its linda like a pitch hits tje glove and the glove hits you, versus the pitch hitting you square in the chest (pass through on a deer) if that makes any sence 

[Ryan_Gill_HuntPrimitive]

yeah i wont be aiming for the wing.

yup crook, Im the same way and often preach it too my friends..especially with deer hunting, i almost always set up where they come in behind me and pass me before i draw, this last one did as well and all was going to plan but then he stopped...which is good, but started turning around.  i woulda had a nice quartering shot otherwise

[Dazv]

I dont know if this helps at all???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Eoyd1a90tk

[hawkbow]

I have found that turkeys are one of the toughest creatures to take down with stone. Their light weight and feathered armor make it difficult to penetrate these winged warriors.. That being said.. I have had great success and almost instant kills with the facing away shot. Smaller points work well for me, I believe the feathers twist up around the larger points at impact and slow the arrow very quickly. Happy hunting brothers and look forward to some harvest pics from everyone.. Hawk

[Ryan_Gill_HuntPrimitive]

yeah....finding the same effects hawk..lol    shooting for softer spots next time and using smaller points like i use for deer hunting.

[Ryan_Gill_HuntPrimitive]

Dazv,  - thanks for the youtube video..  thats one thing i hate about those simulations, they always seem to differ a bit when shooting a live animal...lol   like whoever it was that lined up a while bunch of deer shoulder blades and shot through them with a stone point...yeah  when stuff is dead, dry and doesnt react to the shot, we get different results.   certainly not saying you cant shoot through a turkey wing.....   but after bouncing 2 arrows off.....lol    same with deer shoulder blades...a guy can shoot through un-protected, seasoned scapula's all day long, put it on a live deer and it aint going through..lol  Ive shot several in the shoulder on accident....zero penetration..lol  even with a steel trade point, just bends the point over of bounces the stone point out..lol

[Jeremiah]

... You have to set up to where the gobbler has to go past you. That means setting up with your back to the comeing gobbller or buck. Were taught to set up where you can see the bird coming. IF YOU CAN SEE HIM HE CAN SEE YOU. Plus after he go's by you his attion is to his front alowing you to draw...

Twisted thanks for posting the question, all the great replies have been beyond helpful to more than just you!

crooketarrow - great advice, I'm up in New England and turkey season opens up in a few weeks. Been tryin to figure out how I'm going to take a bird with my selfbow. You just gave me hope Funny how u watch somethin on tv or listen to people talk and it somehow works its way in your head like that's the only way it can be done.

I don't knap and only have fieldpoints. Anyone recommend a particular store-bought BH (PM me)? Based on this conversation, sounds like the slimmer and sharper the better!

Also, I've only hunted turkey with a shotgun in Arkansas. Any other general advice out there for taking a long bear with a selfbow in New England???

[stringstretcher]

Crooketarrow, I have to ask, how old was your grandfather when he started hunting, and how old was he when he passed?  At your figures on the 312 gobblers in 92 springs, if he started at birth, that would be 3.39 gobblers a year?

[mullet]

Charlie;

 I think the older generation back in those days is the reason the NWTF is in existance, now.

[crooketarrow]

  He was BORN IN 1900 DIED IN 1998. Killed his first gobbler setting between his daddy legs at 7 the first one along at 8 killed his last at 96. THE LAST 2 YEARS HE WHEN HE NEVER EVEN TOOK A GUN JUST LET ME KILL THEM. He never missed a spring very seldom a day. He hunted 11 different states never missing WV,V,NC seasons. I've seen him go to gobbler camp out of state and you might not see him for weeks. He'd much rather call them up and let you or someone else kill it. 
     He told me that he really did start keeping count and saveing beards and spurrs untill 1931 so he said that # is way higher than 312 he said he did 'nt know but the #'s over 400 gobblers. He told me all through the TEENS though the1920's he killed turkeys just for food. And his best year was 16 , gobblers and hens 11  gobblers. That 24 years of not careing how many he killed. Not that he did'nt become a sportsman he was that and a lot more. He was true naterizest.  Never wrote any books could'nt even really read or write.
    He told me where he was from in past LURAY VA. THERE WERE NO WARDENS THEN and you just hunted when and where you wanted. The only one came around was the feds looking for there stills. He made shine for 40 years. HE HAD FRIENDS  KILL OVER 200 GOBBLERS THAT HE EITHER CALLED ALONG OR WAS IN ON IN SOME WAY. He had a friend on the VA line but in NC that owned a whole mountain that had killed over 500 TURKEYS in his life time and he did it in 62 springs and falls thats liveing turkeys. He said that over 400 were gobblers. But he did it in spring and fall. My grandad only spring killed his gobblers after the 1920's.

  I'm told all the time no way.

I know its hard to beleive but my brother has all his beards and spurrs 100's of pic's of camps,friends nad gobblers. The oldest in 1917 with him and his twine brother and his dad with 5 gobblers. 3 Of the gobblers were his. I GREW UP LIVEING BESIDE HIM from my birth to his death.
   He love squrril and rabbit hunt and we ran miles of trap lines year after year but the FUNNY THING WAS HE'S NEVER SHOOT A DEER he said where he was from if you saw a deer track a month it was big news. Watched me shoot buck after buck as a kid. He's go deer hunting but never load his gun never even take shells sometimes. Why who knows. But he was a true gobbler hunter,sportsman,nateralest. I know the #'s are hard to beleive BUT THERE TRUE . He was one of those people that had that hue ,attatute, or what eveR it is that just drew you to him at the same time he was a very simple man.
   Greatest man I've ever knew.

[Dax]

Great memories you have, Crooketarrow...has to be nice to have known such a great individual who is a true testament to the many, many cultural changes of our 20th century...I've hunted with Ryan on several occasions myself and I can tell  you he knows his business and what you said is spot on with his philosophy on deer as it relates to letting them come on past...helped me get two selfbow mulies for sure.  Thanks for sharing your recollections of your grandfather's hunting success.

[mullet]

Crooketarrow;

It was definatelly a different tera back then. I go to turkey camp every year in the Green Swamp just to talk to one of my friend's Dad. he is in his late 80's and has a hard time walking far but gets a bird most every year.

 Anybody that has hunted Osceola turkeys for a lot of years has heard the name of Lovett Williams and this gentleman has taught him a lot. We sat around last Saturday listening to him tell stories of the old days turkey hunting and he has killed over 400 also.

[crooketarrow]

  My grandad had a friend in SOUTHER SC. LIVED AND HAD A GOBBLER CAMP AT A PLACE CALLED DARK CORNNER. As a kid growing up I can't remember him missing camp there well into the late 80's. He said he met MR LOVETT he called him in 1970 I think.
  DAX your right now you'd go to jail if you killed enough turkeys to help feed your family. He and some friends started abiding by hunting laws by 1940's. He said he knew people had to start abiding by the law just because of turkey populations going down in this hunting areas. Even thought there was only a couple hard core gobbler hunters in the states he hunted. Nothing like now.
By the time I was born in 61 he was a true sportsmen exspecially to the turkeys. I've never since
 then came across anyone that knew so much about everything agian exspecially turkeys.
  DAX thank you for your kind words.