Tudor Bodkin

[Inuumarue]

Is ~500 grains / 30g too much for a tudor style point?  I may have overbuilt mine.

Adam

[Ian.]

It is a bit, ive got one of hectors that is 12g and others that are well made upto 16g

[Inuumarue]

Ha! well it seems I've way overshot my goals.. guess i'll have to hollow it out a bit.  I've left the walls of the socket fairly thick, so I should be able to remove some material from there if nothing else.

Thanks,

Adam

[Phil Rees]

I believe (and I'll check just to make sure) there are two Tudor bodkins in the Museum of London. If memory serves me correctly I think they were cataloged at 18 grammes each.  So,  Ian your 16 gramme Hector Cole  heads are just about spot on.

[Ian.]

If it helps the head is 2" long  the socket 1.25" deep and the blades are 1.5" from the tip the wall thickness is less than a 1mm about .75

[Inuumarue]

Well darn.  My socket is far too short then.  My head comes out at 1 and 7/8ths long,  3/4ths from blade to blade and 1/2 outside diameter with a wall thickness of about 1/16th (all in inches)  I'd hazard a guess that the blades are about 1/8th thick.  I should loose some weight grinding in the bevels on the blades and smoothing things out, but I doubt it's 10grams worth.  My socket only goes in about an inch.  Doesn't help the weight that its a brass head either.. (I know it should be steel, working with what I have at hand) 

Could you post a picture of your head?  I'm a bit confused by the blade measurement you gave.

Heres a link to a photo of the part I'm working with, and some back story. If you see something drastically wrong with the shape please let me know.
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/43008

Adam

[Ian.]

That looks very interesting casting heads, I wonder if the heads will be strong enouth to take an impact.

My heads

This is hectors head   

The album for you to look at http://s270.photobucket.com/albums/jj93/iansturges/

And yes sorry I should stick to one measuring system.

[Ian.]

They look messy when blown up to that size.

[Inuumarue]

hmm, I'm going off of these points, no clue who forged them.



I'm going to go ahead and cast them as they are, all 33grams.  the thickness should make for better castings.  I'll grind away a fair bit when they're finished.  For what I know, my 10:1 ratio of wax to brass may be a bit much. So they may come out closer than I predict.  If its still too much I'll have to hollow out the insides.

As for holding up to impacts, I have a lot more faith in the gunmetal brass than the cast grey iron we have in the second furnace. Should be able to see if the rubber molds turned out by tomorrow. and move onto making copy waxes by Thursday. I'll weigh a few of them and get an average.

Adam

[Ian.]

Those heads look familiar and well made I am surprised that they are that heavy, please keep us up to date with the casting attempts I would be very interested in a way of mass producing tudor bodkins.

[CraigMBeckett]

Inuumarue ,

From looking at your casting photos the thickness of you taper seems excessive as does the strengthening ridge running from the taper to the tip and the width of the blades appear to be far wider than the base diameter of the taper, which isn't the case for the forged ones shown, even for those you posted pictures of.  I would suggest that all of these are the reason for your heavy weights.

Craig.

[Inuumarue]

Thanks Craig.

I had a bit of trouble carving the wax, the first time around it failed completely because I made it too thin.  And that was just carving wax, not pouring metal.  I'm debating between casting them as they are and altering them later, or altering the waxes before we coat them.  Either way I think your assessment it spot on.  I'll try and alter the original wax tomorrow to see how far I can edit the wax without it becoming too weak. The blades on the original were added on, rather than carved out, I hope having the head as one solid piece should help carving them thinner.
 
Ian, If all goes well, this time around I'll try casting some at finished shape for minimal grinding.  If they turn out, I'd be happy to look into getting a large run made in steel.  But one thing at a time, I have a nasty habit of getting ahead of myself.

Adam

[Inuumarue]

Craig, Ian.  How does the new one look?  I've gotten its weight down to 2 grams, which should come out around 20g once cast. There is still a bit of extra material in the blades, so I may make 18g by the time all is said and done.   It's next to a wax fresh out of the mold for comparison.  I've been pondering over how much I can remove before it becomes a problem with casting.  It seems that these will take a fair amount of finishing after the fact but I'd rather put in the work afterwards than cast a whole dozen full of pockets and coldshuts.   


Adam

[Ian.]

That looks spot on for a Tudor bodkin, (the less weight the better for a head)  im really looking forward to seeing the final product.

[CraigMBeckett]

Hi Inuumarue,

As Ian says this one looks much better and with a bit of judicial finishing it should make an excellent final product. Well done!

Keep us posted as you progress through to the finished head, and don't forget lots of photos.

Best of luck

Craig.