Grain orientation on stave

[WillS]

Best of luck with it!  It looks like a lovely stave, and at least if it doesn't quite go to plan you can stake your fame as the first bowyer ever to chase belly rings to get to the roughed out bow

What weight are you going for, by the way?

[Ruddy Darter]

I reckon finished length will be around 74-75" and I reckon 120@31" would suit it, and I'll be happy with 110-120@31, anything above 100 and I'll be happy.
Yeah, if I'd of been more successful finding the centre I wouldn't be taking such a large ring out, just cleaning up where I mistakenly chased down the right hand side(now removed), now I can make sense of it. If the back had been flatter and not as round as it is I would of been more orientated and I doubt I would of felt the need.
(*not the first, I believe Otzi did this and then used the sapwood side for the belly ) I'm only interested in making bows for myself really, so I'm not hindered if I appear foolish...not aiming to though. 

 R.D.

 

[WillS]

Not appearing foolish at all.  It's probably a far, far safer way of doing it.  Might just take you longer!

74" going to 31" is a really nice combo.  I make mine 73.5" going to 30.5" when the stave allows it.  As before, it's a great looking stave so you should be fine 

[Ruddy Darter]

Nice one WillS, I am enjoying it..and 30&1/2" draw sounds cool too, if I need to shorten for whatever reason that's a draw length I like, great for target 🎯.  Now I've made head and tail of this stave I think I've got the bow building bug, seems to be all I'm thinking about. 
Got to sharpen all my tools before I start up again, they were a little blunt when I started up, should be more fun when they're shipshape. I've got a nice couple of little drawknives that I'm looking forward to using.
 
R.D.



 

[Ruddy Darter]

Oh, just to add... I will be doing this again on an ash stave, I'm going to aim for a concave on the belly side... I reckon that will work well with toasting.
A bit like this...

 R.D.

[Ruddy Darter]

Chased the centre length of bow, I didn't need to take as much out once past the centre, here's a couple of pics with the centre line drawn on, a view from both ends, second pic I highlighted some of the end grain to show how it is( actual rings are a lot tighter).
  Not sure how I'll orientate the profile on this end, any suggestions appreciated 
I don't want to take it too out of line with the snake in the stave, I'll thin this limb and feather it to the centre before I reduce the sides, might get a better idea, may chase the ring again. 
Thinking of making this a "my first self yew warbow build along", not sure if I need to move the post.

 R.D.

[WillS]

I'd be very hesitant to try that with ash.  Ash works well with a rounded-ish belly for low weight, and a dead flat belly for heavier bows.  It's a fickle wood to get used to, and if you've not made heavy ash bows before playing around with new ideas may not go so well

I've just finished a 150lb ash bow, and it's basically a rectangular cross section with all four corners taken off the same amount.  What you're doing by making the belly concave is producing two highly rounded bellies running alongside each other.  Both will most likely chrysal or fail under any real weight. 

Keep it simple, and reinvent the wheel once you've made a few!

[Ruddy Darter]

Well got two to play with, I'll see how it goes,  thanks WillS, I got a few months before I can even look at them and that's somewhat of an exaggerated drawing to explain.

Here's a pic where I thought I'd position the bow tip, open to opinion?( Or a little more to the left and have more slope off to one side on the sapwood, it's more even rounded a few inches up from this).
(or the red, although it's twisting opposite to the other end, if that's of any consequence).
Thanks again for any advice,
 R.D.

[Del the cat]

IMO that is straight enough to just run a tight string down the middle to find your best centreline and use a straight edge to mark out from there.
Del

[Ruddy Darter]

OK Del, then the black marked profile works better and I'll work it straight from that, it pretty much follows straight where I've taken the sides down at the middle, thanks for that,  I'll get back on with it. 
 (I may follow the shape a bit though, just to get a bit of character to the bow  )
 R.D.

[willie]

I may follow the shape a bit though

I am confused about the following the grain concerns. The stave looks to be sawn in the first place, and your center line just follows someone elses saw cuts?  I understand that yew can be more tolerant of runout, but it would be nice to know where the true grain runs before laying out further cuts.  Is it possible to tell this on yew from inspecting at the wood itself?

will, There is evidence of density decreases and elasticity increases as one goes higher in a tree. Keeeping the bow/tree orientation could be the primitive way to make the bottom limb stronger?

[Ruddy Darter]

Hi Willie, I'll try to explain what I mean...
 
Basically when the stave was triangular I couldn't find the opening centre grain(the corner that was on the belly side was not aligned to the grain, so I was cutting in at an angle to them and just getting side lines) , got confused and skimmed down the sides etc, after I cleared it up to myself it follows the shape of how it was sawn clean.
I meant I'll be following the shape of the exposed centre line for the sides(which corresponds to sawn shape, which is now clear to me)  rather than a dead pole bow dimensions drawn within the staves shape, as you can see from the end grains they are irregular and coresponed differently in its orientation to the back as it gets deeper, so next step for me is to reduce the belly side of the limb I've just been on and find how the centre grain looks compared to the other end and centre which I've taken down to nearer thickness, I'll also hollow the belly ring/rings I chase so I can see how it's aligned with the back which is rounded, so harder to read (I don't want side lines on the belly, only arrowed feathers), put on my marks for the sides from the drawn centre line every 10cm or so and remove. I want to follow the growth character as much as I can basically,  for aesthetics if nothing else. I think the end bow would be better for it(that's if I'm successful).
Ive tried drawing on what I mean with the sketch pen but it's too difficult and looks a mess.
(The other yew stave I have has a flat back and flat bellied square cut and is pretty much pole straight, so much more straight forward, I thought I'd start with the more demanding stave first).
A pic of where I chased down a ring, the red dots and cross is where I got lost and started chasing down the side, and the red ^ is the original belly corner was, to give an idea.
 R.D.

[willie]

the corner that was on the belly side was not aligned to the grain?

still a bit confused, sorry, were the staves split or sawn when you bought them?

[Ruddy Darter]

It was sawn clean in a triangle. ( my other stave I mentioned is from a different tree) Don't know if it was quarter split and then sawn clean, but I reckon so. I'm probably not that good at explaining, when I try harder I get worse at it .
(*just to note, all the pics on this post are of the same stave I'm working on).

Put in a nutshell, I'm aiming to be as true as I can laying out the bow with how the tree grew., following the slight snake and twist that is has.  .

 R.D.

[willie]

I'm aiming to be as true as I can laying out the bow with how the tree grew., following the slight snake and twist that is has.

I guess that what I am asking, is how can you be sure, that what it has now, is how it grew, if it was sawn?

there are ways to trace the actual grain growth on some kinds of wood, but I dunno about yew.

maybe the best is to straightline it as Del recommends. I fear that I might be encouraging overanyalsis. Maybe more yew guys can post help with how to see the run of the grain.