Grain orientation on stave

[WillS]

I'm now in the same boat with elm - I'd give away body parts to get hold of good amounts of Wych elm but it's just not available where I'm based!

We've got loads of it growing in the verges here (Warwickshire). I've got a couple of spare staves if you like - how about a kidney? 

I've got more yew than I know what to do with.  Currently got about 30 staves of really good stuff seasoning, and an entire school grounds of more when I want to fell it.  If you've got good quality Wych elm I'd be more than happy to trade.

[Ruddy Darter]

I took the belly down to final dimensions, took it tight and lost a couple of mm at the centre so weight lost, still wide by 3 or 4mm so I'll keep that on and just round.
It's got a nice even flex and bounce throughout and I am feeling quite happy and hopeful compared to earlier, I was thinking following the twist was a bad idea and was going to chuck the towel in, but how it worked out with the angle to the back it has left extra belly wood on one side so should bend in the right direction, seems to flex that way already, and with leaving on the extra bit of width I should be able to control the direction of bend better when tillering, here's hoping anyway. no real need to muck around with heat now.
Next step, dig out and glue in knots, round off belly and clean up back, then start to tiller. I think I made good ground today and glad I didn't chuck in. 
D-flex seems to of lessened, put up against straight edge it has a little over an inch.
(Also found a pic of top view of stave, leather tie marks where I sawed off end with split sapwood.)
 R.D.

 

[willie]

I took the belly down to final dimensions, took it tight and lost a couple of mm at the centre so weight lost

Are you working from straight from the printed plan to final dimension?  I have learned (the hard way), to leave a little extra at the center handle area, as it comes around last during the tillering process. I actually would hold off on the belly rounding in the center third of the bow, until I had a chance to look at the overall bend from a distance.

[Lucasade]

Will - pm sent

[Ruddy Darter]

I did have some time helping a bowyer for a weekend a couple of years back and liked his method, and from chatting a few years back on the Ewbs site some bowyers like to get some movement central(first bend to the bow) and work out to the limbs and limb tips, albeit only slightly moving.  I think I'd like to work this way, centre outwards for a full compass bow, that's how I plan to work it, just my preference.
So I'm going to round it all off, get it moving slightly centre working outwards. That's my plan.

 R.D.

[willie]

I think I'd like to work this way, centre outwards for a full compass bow.

Sounds like you have a plan of attack in place. I did not see a forum at the EWBS site, is it still active?

[Ruddy Darter]

I'm not sure, I would of thought so. It's been a couple of years or so for me.
My well wishes to them and hope they are all doing fine. 
 R.D.

[WillS]

The forum is hidden, and can't be accessed unless you're a paid member. 

I've not been a member for a year or so now, but most of the forum discussion has moved to Facebook, as there are only 2 or 3 EWBS members who don't use Facebook​.

[Ruddy Darter]

I've got the belly rounded and I cleaned up the back. I have 5mm sapwood thickness.
I fixed on the horns, sorry to say I made a right pigs ear of it, drilled the horn wonky and more glue than good fit. I used a copious amount of superglue and activator and stood it upright, they will have to do. 
Some pics and a couple of knots, I'll be keeping it stiffer here but do they look like they would pose any problems?

R.D.

[Ruddy Darter]

...one more pic, this is going to be the bottom limb. (same as tree growth I think ), did I do right following the grain this way or will this cause me problems? (I took a little out with heat)
 I got reasonable tips and centre string alignment, all said and done, just for my knowledge, how crucial does it need to be dead centre?
And for side nocks, the groove left or right for the bottom and top nocks?
Thanks for any insight,
 R.D.

[WillS]

Sidenocks can be any side, as long as they're opposite, but the usual way is to have the top nock cut on the left, looking at the bows belly.

Don't cut them like Victorian nocks, with tile saws and files.  It leaves a deep, narrow groove and is a nightmare.  Use a good sharp knife, and go into the horn from two angles until they meet, with just a hint of the bow tip wood showing through.  That said, if you're going to use modern string loops instead of slipknots on both ends, a deeper narrower groove is probably safer... 

Dead center is definitely not crucial.  All that really matters is the bow isn't trying to turn inside out on you as you brace it.  This is another reason why choosing which way up is daft before it's tillered.  Any sideways bend or off-centre can be used to bring the string nearer the side of the bow you'll rest the arrow on, essentially reducing the importance of arrow spine. 

[Ruddy Darter]

OK, that's great. Thank you WillS. 
(I doubt I'll take the groove down to wood, I did a pretty sloppy job of the fit, luckily though where I drilled out the horns wonky I'm left with a lot of horn on the corresponding opposite sides, plenty to play with without having to go too deep).

  R.D.

[WillS]

You have to go down to the wood.  If that's buffalo horn, and you try cutting sidenocks and relying just on the horn at above 100lb it's guaranteed to split and fail on you.  That's why the originals were all cut to the wood - the wood of the bow tip is what supports the downward pressure of the string loop, and the horn supports the crushing pressure which would otherwise bite into the wood.

The worse the fit, the more important it is to get the bow tip exposed, otherwise it will never work.  Even using cow horn it's fairly crucial to get into the wood, otherwise you're asking the tiny amount of horn below the groove to hold the entire force of the string.

If you've made a dodgy job of fitting them (and to be honest, if you've used buffalo horn!) I'd be inclined to forget sidenocks and just go Victorian.  It's a recipe for heartbreak otherwise.

[Ruddy Darter]

OK WillS, I'm inclined to agree then, thanks. I'm low on string material too and I have strings that I can reuse so better to be practical. I must say though this white buffalo ox horn seems a lot tougher than the regular buffalo horn, I've had a job drilling it and sawing it. If I redo them or next bow and do a better job(I know where I messed up) I'll definitely give them a try.
Thanks again, appreciated.
 
 R.D.

[Ruddy Darter]

Sorry to say I'm shelving this bow for a while. I got to a couple of inches and the twist is throwing it offset and string alignment has gone a little awol and it needs some correction with steam and I can't really spare much more time on this. I may start on my more straight forward stave when I have the opportunity and go back to this when I get a little more savvy. Where the twist starts there a knot that complicates the issue for me too. 
So I'm quitting while I'm ahead for the time being.
Thanks for the help and advice and I have found this good practice and look forward to future bow building with enthusiasm.

 R.D.