some advice on knots

[Ruddy Darter]

I've decided on reducing down my 160 Italian yew, I made a bit of a hash of it a while back trying to even out the tiller, it's thick and thin in places it shouldn't be so I'm going to shorten it from 81&/4" to 78" (off the top limb only) and I copied some specs from Norwegian bows and going to mark out rough dimensions for 130-150 which should cover my mistakes, I measured every 10cm with callipers and should have plenty of wood still.
Before I mark it out properly I hoped for some advice on knots on the top limb and what sort of considerations I should take when I narrow the bow. They are shown in order working up the limb ( the bottom limb is pretty clean, just pins)
The first pic is where the new centre is, roughly 2" lower than what it was. As you can see I have plenty of wood.
(The written number is what it will be reduced to in mm)
The third pic is side view of previous knot pic
 thanks for any advice, I'm just sizing it up at the moment before I talk myself into making a proper start.
Ruddy

[FilipT]

I am also making bow from dimensions at Norwegian warbows site, although mine is from hazel. I see you are also a "caliper guy" like me

[Ruddy Darter]

Hi Stalker, yes the callipers are a recent purchase after some good advice on here 

 Ruddy.

[Del the cat]

Hard to offer specific advice, but I'd be tempted to allow extra width round those knots rather than extra thickness.
Extra width gives you more sapwood to keep the back strong.
I'd also reduce the length as little as possible, you can always take more off later, maybe just take off 2 inches, it waont make much differnce at the grip, but may just give you some wriggle room later.
I tend to follow the principal of always take off about 2/3 of what you think you should.
Del

[Ruddy Darter]

Thanks Del, I agree with extra width rather than thickness, extra thickness is the main cause of the problems to start with. I've move the handle down south two inches and will be taking off the top limb so I can take out some little stress splits that have occurred under where it has been left thick around the back of those double knots (shown in pic), they look like they may get worse. So I'm going to get it back to something like a stave and restart rather than tiller as is, not really fussed what weight I get, heavy or light..just a nice 78" working bow. The specs I've copied with the length I'm aiming for fits within all the irregularities.
At the moment it goes thick and thin and thick and bulbous around that knot and stressing above and below it.
Anyway, I'll probably stare at it for a few hours and then put it back to rest for a few weeks ,
Ideally I want to get a couple of staves and start bows from scratch and then go back to it.
 Ruddy.

[Ian.]

Don't touch it. You can't make a bow better by what you're doing, leave it alone.

[FilipT]

Hi Stalker, yes the callipers are a recent purchase after some good advice on here 

 Ruddy.

We are actually a rare bunch, many don't even use measurements!

[Del the cat]

I have shortened, lightened and reworked bows with cracked tips made by a well know Italian bowyer.
Mind I was reducing the to ladies weight.
It is an o[ortunity to learn from others mistakes and either succeed or make some of your own.
It is a no loose scenario if the bow is too heavy and has problems anyway.
Learning and experience is priceless.
Ignorance is free and instant...
Did I just say that? It's a keeper!
Del

[JW_Halverson]

Hi Stalker, yes the callipers are a recent purchase after some good advice on here 

 Ruddy.

Lot faster for me to make calculations if I don't have to mess with fractions.

[FilipT]

Metric system all the way! Ok, maybe its easier for width in inches, but thickness taper is far better when you look at the millimeters.

[Ruddy Darter]

I made a start over the weekend, I measured and marked on the new dimensions and linked them up with lengths of masking tape to get a straight as I could  pen line on. I've taken off the two sides but have yet to mark on fully the new belly line and then reduce. With the new dimensions and new length I seem to still have enough for a 130-160, although I'm going for a 31 draw. Ive left extra around the knots and will reduce them some when I get going with tillering, but will keep then flat on the belly (I'm building a tillering tree with pulley too to make life easier )
Here's some pics,

[Ruddy Darter]

I've left the old horn on for now so I got a better hold while shaping, I'll cut it off and put a new one on once I've reduced the belly.

There is one knot (pic1)) I'd like to question (4&1/2" up from centre), the pen line is the new belly line. I'm just going to follow this line and the knot should be o.k? Should I consider anything else?, (I run in super glue in the knot crack)
Two more pics of the extra I  left around the knots on the top limb, and a pic of the bow after both the sides reduced.

 R.D.

[Del the cat]

In that top pic, the Q you have to ask is where does the knot come from? Does it start from the centre of the tree which is still hidden in the timber, or does it match up to one in the centre of the belly?
If is goes from belly to side, it is possibly asking to cause a pinch, I'd be tempted to leave the belly just a bit less rounded near the knot to give it a little support. E.G leave a little extra where your black line is.
Generally I feel the mistake is to allow too much extra round knots and to not pick out any black stuff... mind your knots seem t I just had a 115# explode on me 
Del

[Ruddy Darter]

Thanks Del,  nothing showing on the back and here is a pic belly view, the knot is hard and tight with nothing loose to come out. Thanks for the advice, I was intending to keep it a little stiffer there and shall leave it less rounded and more supporting.
Sorry about your bow .
 R.D.

[JW_Halverson]

Looks like you are keeping the faith with that piece of yew, Ruddy.  Easy does it now!