checking splits in sapwood, is there a cure?

[RuddyDarter]

Hi,
Could anyone offer advice on some verticle sapwood splits ( checking)I have on a bow. I was told when I got the bow the splits were cosmetic and not deep and would not constitute a problem... and were secured with epoxy. It's a 130@32 and can draw to 33" alpine yew. They remained stable,  and I took it for granted and decided to shorten the bow a while back as I found it overly long for its size as it was 35mm widest at the handle and 80&1/4" in length (and i only draw to 31") ,which I have shortened to 77&3/4". I've had a fair few arrows out of it since with no problem but have noticed the split fixed with epoxy nearest the bottom nock has slightly started to migrate south and I can feel the edges of it. The outer limbs still need to be worked thinner as they don't bend enough at present but I feel that thinning the outer limbs anymore will compound this problem, it is lacking in caste without work done here.V It's a good piece of wood and has taken very little set surprisingly.
Could anyone suggest a solution to this problem?
Thanks for any help/advice.

RuddyDarter (formerly Berkman).

[WillS]

I'm just finishing up a bow with exactly the same problem.  I think these are windshakes more than drying checks, but I've flooded them with superglue and clamped them up and they seem very stable now.  Unfortunately the customer didn't want the bow after seeing them, but somebody else might.  It's a nice punchy little 110lb so I might keep it for myself for Welsh class shoots



On yours, I'd be more worried about the one sitting on the edge of the sapwood than the longitudinal ones.  That's got potential to open up as it's going to be bending through it. 

You could always try wrapping with fastflight or something and soaking the whole shebang in superglue?

[RuddyDarter]

Thanks WillS,
Yes you're right that side one is a problem, but not near the back but where it joins the heartwood, it was pulling away,
I ran in some superglue and it stabilised but I just felt that area and it is starting to feel a little raised again ,
Here's pic of area and another pic of where it is in relation to the bow (its the bottom limb),my thumb marking its location.
I suppose more glue and hope and pray, I should of followed suit like your customer, niave of me to accept it.
Oh well...

RuddyDarter
Vid link of shooting it as it is https://youtu.be/SsYLA6fwjDg

[Heffalump]

Hi Mr Darter, that's a real shame about that bow.....are we allowed to ask who the bowyer was on this? Was a replacement or repair offered? Quite understand if you'd rather not divulge that info though.

Good viddy (I was fearing for your GoPro on the return leg though)! 

John T. 

[RuddyDarter]

Hi John,
Ha-ha, the camera ( my only mobile phone pegged to the boss) services intact thankfully, I'm typing on it now...I was more fearfull than you John! 
I feel any warranty or obligation would be now void after me shortening it. I'm  just looking for a solution to this potential problem.
 I think the best solution for me would be to go ahead and retiller the tips accordingly which would lessen stress at that side shake, and while braced (stand on string and draw it up) introduce some more slow drying epoxy into the shake on the back that's nearest the nock and unbrace and allow to dry. It's the lower limb so I can allow that tip to be a little stiffer. Seems like the best compromise to me(?).
I'm happy to stand corrected if an alternative remedy is suggested 
A little ticked off because of issues on all my bows recently, and a major sapwood splinter lift on my 140 , but getting on with sorting them out. (Can a bloom of sapwood be successfully introduced to a bow of this kind of weight?)

RuddyDarter

[RuddyDarter]

Here is where I am on the topic bow,( I pulled the string down a bit crook, so it is a little off centre.) Its pegged on 30" and then a mad rush for the camera  .
(Bottom limb is left, it looks like it hinges a bit on the outer top limb but that's where the light from the window stops and also the sapwood comes down more at that same point.)
Perhaps a little off mid bottom limb either side of that central knot, and the last five or so inches on the limb end?
And a pic drawn to 31+( found someone to hold camera),
RuddyDarter.

[Heffalump]

Hi John,
Ha-ha, the camera ( my only mobile phone pegged to the boss) services intact thankfully, I'm typing on it now...I was more fearfull than you John! 
I feel any warranty or obligation would be now void after me shortening it, and besides I'm really not out to rake any muck, which it would look like on my part if I started bringing names into it, by all accounts he is a really good chap and is a talented bowyer which is not in question. I'm  just looking for a solution to this potential problem.
 I think the best solution for me would be to go ahead and retiller the tips accordingly which would lessen stress at that side shake, and while braced (stand on string and draw it up) introduce some more slow drying epoxy into the shake on the back that's nearest the nock and unbrace and allow to dry. It's the lower limb so I can allow that tip to be a little stiffer. Seems like the best compromise to me(?).
I'm happy to stand corrected if an alternative remedy is suggested 
A little ticked off because of issues on all my bows recently, and a major sapwood splinter lift on my 140 , but getting on with sorting them out. (Can a bloom of sapwood be successfully introduced to a bow of this kind of weight?)

RuddyDarter

Hola Mr.Ruddy,

probably a gude question for Del to answer, or any other of the very talented bowyers that frequent this forum and work at these sort of heroic bow weights,..... but as a humble heavy-bow archer and by extension (see what I did there)? ....the guy that would be chancing a phizzog full of yew splinters if everything went "tits up", I'd say that's a big (cue Dr.Evil voiceover here)..."NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO".... on that one matey 

Do buy another GoPro for the butt at the other end of the field (looking forward enormously now to the footage of the arrow kills one of these) and keep us posted on your experimental repair/test-pilot exploits on this one, very interesting thread.

Yours in safety goggles,

JT 

[RuddyDarter]

Thanks Heffalump, I was thinking the same.., I was hoping someone would say " yeah..no problem, just need some spit and a chewed toffee"  ,I glued it with superglue as best I could down the cracks and slow drying epoxy and linen cloth in the area that dipped in(so no gap under the binding), and bound around with linen thread and epoxy and ended up with this subtle fix that I don't think anyone would notice unless it was pointed out to them in good daylight...maybe hold for a few more arrows(?)..
This is the 140 bow I was referring to.
And a pic of where I am on the topic bow, the shakes seem stable and not a problem as it is.(pegged at 30")

RuddyDarter.

[WillS]

Blooms are perfectly safe at that weight mate - not sure if you're aware of a Czech bowyer called Pavel but he's a master of setting blooms into bows over 140lb.  He doesn't use rounded blooms but straight edged rectangular ones, a good 8" or so long.  Set them in with a 2 part epoxy and leave for over 48hr and you will be fine.  I've got a few photos of his blooms in a 150lb bow if you need them, but its fairly straightforward.

[WillS]

Just spotted you said sapwood.... D'oh!  Never mind. I'm sure it would work anyway though provided the length of the bloom is good enough. 

[RuddyDarter]

Thanks WillS, I'll have a look into that some time, get this one up and running for now...looking o.k?  I'm hitting a little under125@31 at the minute, there wasn't enough wood at the centre to keep the weight in the limbs. I think I'll  leave it like that and be a little friendly on those side shakes.
The weight balances bang on at the centre.
I suppose that's about it. 
RuddyDarter.

[Ruddy Darter]

I took a little off in places to try and even out a bit, is this looking o.k.?, (only drawn to 30@1/2" in pic) sorry for the angle, didn't  want to worry the neighbours.



                                          (Pic removed)
                                   

  Ruddy Darter.

[WillS]

Bottom limb could do with some scraping about 6-8" below the handle.  Kind of where the grass starts, down to that small dark patch of grass.  Nitpicking, though.  Looks nice.

[Ruddy Darter]

Got ya WillS, I see where you mean...I'll have another little scrape there over the weekend while I work on the cut down bow. Thanks bud.

  Ruddy Darter.