Timber hitch of FF on war bow?

[WillS]

it's not just about time, it's about conditions.

That's what I meant.  You can "dry" a piece of wood in a dry room in about a year.  You have to expose the wood to cold and hot airflow over various seasons to "season" wood.  That's my understanding anyway.

Considering that some of the best bowyers working with yew leave their timber for at least 5 years says something.  If you could produce really good seasoned timber in a year just by making it smaller, there wouldn't be any reason to wait.  I strongly believe there's a huge advantage in letting it sit for a number of years at least.

[M-P]

Del,  There is definitely a feeling on some folks part that changes in the wood continue even after the wood is fully dried.   I've never seen any scientific article on what this additional 'Seasoning" does, but I am one of those that thinks a little extra time in the drying rack can produce a better bow.  Maybe that's just an excuse to collect wood faster than I can use it.  Either way it works for me.  Ron

[Del the cat]

Yes the wood may change a little, (E.G we all know the colour changes), but I feel the difference is marginal at best.
I'm just trying to discourage a self confessed newbie being put off by being told it takes 2-5 years .
I speak from my own personal experience (I have a 40 year old Yew ELB to back up my opinion).
And I'll happily accept that some of the "best bowyers" are on this forum and I'll respect their opinions.
Del

[sumpitan]

It is interesting how things change like a pendulum swings. The old, accepted dogma was that it takes years to season bow wood. Then came Comstock who made excellent, hard-hitting, durable whitewood bows from trees cut two or three months earlier. "”What matters is getting the wood to 9 % moisture without damaging the wood. From a practical standpoint, that’s all that matters”, he wrote.

Baker took Comstock's approach and ran with it, experimentally plowing through loads of variously seasoned yew, osage, elm, ash, hickory etc. etc. His data clearly supported Comstock's findings: getting wood dry is all that matters. Thousands of quick-dried bows were made all over the world following Baker's publications, even though even this approach was nothing new, just ask any aboriginal bowyer.

Many would scoff at Baker and his Californian kiln-dried flatbows, but he did build hundreds of yew bows, as well, out of staves seasoned in myriad ways and schedules. Result: seasoning makes no difference, as long as wood MC ends up appropriate. Too bad Baker bowed out before presenting his Seasoning methods and Yew performance data in minute detail, here in this neo-conservative bowyery era. It's almost as if there's an innate need to crush preceding views and make up something new, even if it meant going backwards.

The same caveat applies to professional yew bowyers today as it did in earlier times: these guys have full pipelines of wood of various age, never running out of years-old wood to make bows (and if your competitors claim Highly Seasoned Yew, you better follow). They have no need to use six-month-old wood, like the budding backyard bowyer.  Claims that wood needs to be seasoned for years play in the pocket of professional bowyers, but more importantly, damage primitive archery as a whole.

Me, I've built a couple hundred bows out of maybe 30 different wood species, 90 % of it self-harvested and dried. I have occasionally made bows from trees that were alive just 10 days earlier; most of the time my wood sits a couple of months between felling and tillering. I have not seen evidence of any gain from letting wood sit beyond getting it to a low-enough MC (which can take a good while or never happen, if drying conditions are sub-optimal). Now, I happen to have a bunch of staves that have sat for 6 - 10 years. I'll keep my eyes open, as always.

Tuukka

[poplar600]

I guess it is now just a matter of finding a piece of yew that is straight and knot free, splitting it and leaving it for a year.

[WillS]

Knots aren't usually a problem.  Plenty of good bows are full of knots.  Don't discard any yew if it has knots and is otherwise "perfect".

[poplar600]

Sorry I meant 'big knots's', such as huge braches.

So just straight with no twist?

[WillS]

Some twist is ok.  You can get away with murder using yew. 

[Frodolf]

Thought I would reclaim this thread a little.   

I'll make a continuous/endless loop string for my bow. I've never made one before, and the tutorials I find all involve rather fancy jigs and seem to make the whole affair more complex than necessary. So I thought I'd stick to the description in TBB, which seems simple enough.

I have a question though. In the description in TBB they simply tie the ends together with what to me looks like a reef knot. But that worries me a bit with fast flight since it's such a slippery material. Is a reef knot strong enough for fast flight? I was thinking maybe a water knot would be preferable (harder to tie really tight though, but stronger and less slippery).

[Del the cat]

I do it like that, the reef knot is under the serving for the loop and that, combined with all the tension and twist in the finished sting grips it into effectively a solid bundle. I've never had a string made like that shift... even at 275# draw weigth
My string jig is made from some Dexion (angle section steel) with wire fence tensioning loops.
http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/roys-bow-and-stringing-jig.html
It's been improved since that pic... I can post some detail pics if you want.
You need some way of holding good tension while doing the serving.
Del

[Frodolf]

Well, Del, I see now the importance of tension in the string when serving it! Especially fast flight since the serving thread I used tended to slip very easily on it. It took some fiddling to get started on each serving.

The result? The string ended up 2" too short and with a pretty ugly serving job.

Can't figure out why it ended up so much shorter. I braced the bow with my tillering string and measured that string's length from loop to loop. I made the continuous loop string half an inch longer thinking the serving would maybe eat up a little string length. But where did 2 inches go? Is there some secret length formula here that I don't know about, or does it sound more like I, despite my best effort, simply screwed up the measurements?

[Del the cat]

I have a pretty fool proof way of getting it right... with NO MEASUREMENTS!
I have a very long string sting with big loops that I use for tillering. I have an aluminium ring that I thread the string through several times to effectively shorten it, fine length adjustment is then by twisting. When I need to make the proper sting, I adjust my string jig so that the tillering string just goes over the hooks and then I make up the continuous loop for the string. The adjusters can then be slackened off to pull one side of the skein out the way with an S shaped piece of wire (bent nail/coathanger etc) hooked into one of the holes in the jig. The tension is then wound back on and the serving for the first loop done.
The pic shows one end of the jig (the adjustable end) it's basically two lentgths of Dexion angle. They can be adjusted to approx the right distance and bolted together the adjustable hook on each end (made from a fence wire tensioning eye, with end opened out) gives fine adjustment.
Look at this video (at 3mins40 secs) for the long string, shortening toggle explanation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8OjC7HV4Bk
If you want I'll do a video of the whole string making process next time I make one.
Del
(I've added more pics (don't look at the "welding" it's tricky to weld to the holes      ... )

[Frodolf]

Thanks for the pics, Del! I understand your setup and it looks good. It's interesting how different bowyers find different solutions to common problems! A question though: do you compensate any for string stretch? I mean, your tillering string is bound to be less stretchy than your freshly made continuous loop string. In other words, if you make the string the exact same length as your tillering string, won't you end up with a string that stretches when you brace the bow, making it a tad too long?

Anyway, lacking any sort of stringing jig (or materials to make one) I went ahead and tried another possible solution, to make a 2-ply flemish twist string and then braid a second loop in the other end instead of a timber hitch (as shown in Twisted Stave's video linked below, I tip my hat in his direction for the vid!). And it actually works really well! I like it already because of three reasons: 1) you don't need any sort of jig, 2) it's adjustable – if you make a too long or too short a string you can simply unbraid it and adjust the length appropriately, takes about 20 minutes. This means you have the possibility to adjust the string to fit another bow if the need arises. And 3) you don't need to serve the string a bunch (something I find quite boring to do ).

Considering that Fast Flight is substantially more slippery that B-50, I braided the string about 8-10" to be safe. That means you probably end up with a slightly heavier string than a continuous loop string, so that's a drawback, but a minor one IMO.

I haven't yet had time to put this braided string to the test with a lot of shooting, but from what I can tell the braid seems solid and very durable. One could probably serve the braid if one wishes to beef it up further.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfyPOikbBvA

[Del the cat]

Good questions!
I set the jig so I can just get the tillering string on and off it. The continuous loop is wound on with light tension (so the strands are even and not flopping about getting tangled). By the time it is made and twisted it should be a whisker short... but that just compensates for the little bit of stretch you get with a new string. I also apply plenty of tension when I twist it and serve the end serving together at each end to make the actual loop.
Del