Author Topic: The heart of the matter  (Read 12713 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Stringman

  • Guest
The heart of the matter
« on: June 11, 2015, 07:39:34 pm »
My daddy always said "believe none of whatcha hear and only half of whatcha see." With that in mind I will do my best to present a proper argument.

Recently it has been asserted that someone has found an "ancient technique" that allows them and only them to know the true way to the heart of a stone. Though many of us don't care there are some mystifying remarks made with fancy names and a few pictures floated around with lengthy explanations that say nothing and further muddy the waters so no real information gets passed.

I have poured over these tedious documents in an effort to diagnose the intent of these manuscripts and I am prepared to lay out the solution to the highly sought after, much anticipated outré passé, coast to coast, full wing spread, and goal to goal touchdown (otherwise called overshot.)





I will strive to answer all questions but let me first point out a few things.


Notice my extremely narrow point of entry. Some would suggest that this can only be an indicator of their secretly designed antler punch notching technique and that no other tool can simulate this initiation.



Another noteworthy fact is the smooth facet of the material along the fracture line between the flake and stone. This feature has also been erroneously associated with hammer stone technique and in fact the claim was made that a baton would create distinct and undesirable ripples.

The truth for all you that want to hear it... This overshot was created with a copper bopper. Call me a cheater if ya want. If you are skilled at thinning there are a number of ways to pull it off. None of them are secret and none are exclusive.

For myself, I rather appreciate the learning environment that we've create around here, and really enjoy seeing the highly diverse way we all approach this thing we love. No need for pot shots or mystery. This just ain't the place for it. Do what you do, show it off, and otherwise be friendly.

Another one of my daddy's saying, "smile an the world'll smile wit ya."   ;)

Offline mullet

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 22,911
  • Eddie Parker
Re: The heart of the matter
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2015, 07:44:17 pm »
 Thanks, Scott. I always like learning ancient, Top Secrets. :)
Lakeland, Florida
 If you have to pull the trigger, is it really archery?

Offline bubby

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,054
Re: The heart of the matter
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2015, 08:42:14 pm »
Outstanding Scott 👏👏👏
failure is an option, everyone fails, it's how you handle it that matters.
The few the proud the 27🏹

Offline TRACY

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,523
Re: The heart of the matter
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2015, 10:56:02 pm »
Love the looks of that rock! Thanks for explaining your technique in less than 1000 words and 20 of the same picture ;)

Wise words of wisdom from your dad :)

Tracy
It is what it is - make the most of it!    PN500956

Offline JoJoDapyro

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,504
  • Subscription Number PM109294
Re: The heart of the matter
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2015, 10:59:04 pm »
I do that all the time. I thought it was a rookie mistake.  :o
If you always do what you always did you'll always get what you always got.
27 inch draw, right handed. Bow building and Knapping.

Offline nclonghunter

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,779
Re: The heart of the matter
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2015, 10:15:22 am »
Nicely done Scott!

Is the overshot really a good thing to do? Seems to me when I have had an overshot it usually reduces width greatly. I have seen a quarter inch lost on the opposite side plus what you lose on the striking edge. I would rather have a good flake travel across but not create the overshot. If there is value in it, I would like to know....Thanks
There are no bad knappers, only bad flakes

Stringman

  • Guest
Re: The heart of the matter
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2015, 10:59:21 am »
Kinda been my take on it as well. I would much rather have thinning flakes travel 7/8 the way across than to overshot and blow the whole side off.

Offline StevenT

  • Member
  • Posts: 612
Re: The heart of the matter
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2015, 11:33:56 am »
Finally, worded so I understand it.  :o

Offline caveman2533

  • Member
  • Posts: 640
  • Steve Nissly
Re: The heart of the matter
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2015, 11:54:18 am »
It depends, Properly setup you can reduce the thickness of a blade  with just 3-5 strikes, producing 3-5 scrapers, multi use flakes and a biface with a wicked sharp edge.

Offline caveman2533

  • Member
  • Posts: 640
  • Steve Nissly
Re: The heart of the matter
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2015, 11:57:38 am »
 a great video of hammerstone  overshot flaking at the 10:45 mark check out the edge on his biface. If you were butchering, man what a knife.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeWWPbMFYYo

Offline turbo

  • Member
  • Posts: 130
Re: The heart of the matter
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2015, 12:05:51 pm »
Nicely done Scott!

Is the overshot really a good thing to do? Seems to me when I have had an overshot it usually reduces width greatly. I have seen a quarter inch lost on the opposite side plus what you lose on the striking edge. I would rather have a good flake travel across but not create the overshot. If there is value in it, I would like to know....Thanks

There are different kinds of overshots, the ideal ones gentle feather out on the opposite edge oppose to taking out a chunk. Of course if you get the latter early on in reduction they aren't so bad to get, especially if they take out a square edge.

They discussed (and named) overshots in detail in the big thread on PP. I think the 'coast to coast' were the name of the ideal ones; would have to look again to be sure. Overshots are mostly associated w/ Clovis technology and are nice to thin a blade while maintaining width if they're done properly and consistently.

*I see 'caveman' posted as I was typing, Lucas is a super abo knapper, great vids and he also summed up the Clovis technology in one sentence opposed to my paragraph..lol

Offline Zuma

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,324
Re: The heart of the matter
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2015, 12:53:18 pm »
a great video of hammerstone  overshot flaking at the 10:45 mark check out the edge on his biface. If you were butchering, man what a knife.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeWWPbMFYYo

To bad I can't watch the video. So maybe you could
answer a few questions about it.
What does he start with? A round nodule. What material?
Does he make Clovis points with the same technique?
 I have no doubt that if you are adapt enough to create
overshot flakes at will, you are cool.
Although I doubt that less than 10 percent  of all
 knappers past and present can with any consistancy.
I'd like to see a show of hands here of the folks that can
prepare a platform on a Clovis type core and strike 2out of 20
overshot flakes. I bet Ben can't lol
Obsidian and quality cherts like Strings should be pretty simple.
I still contend that in abo projectile manufacture, overshot was the result
of going for the prize and comming up a little short. (loosing width)
I create overshots all the time. Mosty on large cobble reduction or difficult preforms. Never intentional
Zuma
If you are a good detective the past is at your feet. The future belongs to Faith.

Offline JackCrafty

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 5,628
  • Sorry Officer, I was just gathering "materials".
Re: The heart of the matter
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2015, 01:19:22 pm »
Good thread.  As far as creating overshots at will, I can do it when I'm in a self-sabotage mood  (not good).  But that's freehand. 

Firm support methods are a different story.  I've found that certain "opposite edge support techniques" favor overshot flakes... and not just with percussion.  It works with pressure too.  Basically, you firmly seat the opposite edge into hard leather (or something that pinches/clamps the opposite edge) and the flake will dive before reaching the other edge.  It is a weird thing to do on purpose, IMO.  And it doesn't have anything to do with the tool you are using.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 12:13:57 am by jackcrafty »
Any critter tastes good with enough butter on it.

Patrick Blank
Midland, Texas
Youtube: JackCrafty, Allergic Hobbit, Patrick Blank

Where's Rock? Public Waterways, Road Cuts, Landscape Supply, Knap-Ins.
How to Cook It?  200° for 24hrs then 275° to 500° for 4hrs (depending on type), Cool for 12hr

Offline sleek

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,764
Re: The heart of the matter
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2015, 05:52:05 pm »
I need rock nockin lessons... this is really vamping up my interest.
Tread softly and carry a bent stick.

Dont seek your happiness through the approval of others

JacksonCash

  • Guest
Re: The heart of the matter
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2015, 07:43:01 pm »
Ditto sleek- I have no idea whats going on with half of what anyone says in this forum, but they make some nice lookin points!