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Author Topic: 2015 Primitive Archer bow trade works in progress  (Read 373346 times)

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Offline JoJoDapyro

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Re: 2015 Primitive Archer bow trade works in progress
« Reply #930 on: August 25, 2015, 05:09:41 pm »
Who is you?  >:D Long time no see sir! Welcome Back!
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If you always do what you always did you'll always get what you always got.
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Offline huisme

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Re: 2015 Primitive Archer bow trade works in progress
« Reply #931 on: August 25, 2015, 05:23:14 pm »
Too long :o It's been hectic, and I regret packing the bow because now I can't shoot it.

I do have a sort of official issue I think we should address: people have received unshootable bows.

I won't name any names and I don't want anyone to name names. The purpose of this trade is to encourage involvement.

One of the requirements for participation was that an individual could make and ship a safe bow. Some people have called or messaged me describing bows with hinges, cracking sounds, and chrysalis. I tried to make it clear that nobody should expect a record-breaking weapon but between the six-month timeline, huge pool of knowledge to draw from for help with builds, and the requirement for previous posts or an older member's recommendation I'm surprised that there are duds.

I'm not exactly sure how to address the issue and I don't think we officiators can make such a decision without everyone's input. I might make a separate thread for this discussion unless someone beats me to it.
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Offline JoJoDapyro

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Re: 2015 Primitive Archer bow trade works in progress
« Reply #932 on: August 25, 2015, 05:24:43 pm »
Message me Huisme.
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If you always do what you always did you'll always get what you always got.
27 inch draw, right handed. Bow building and Knapping.

Offline tattoo dave

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Re: 2015 Primitive Archer bow trade works in progress
« Reply #933 on: August 25, 2015, 05:41:39 pm »
Jensen, I'm glad to hear it made it there. Things were pretty crazy at the last minute for me. That bow was plan C. I really like that bow, a lot. I hope you like it as much as I did, hard to let go of ;) That was the first scalloped bow I've made, thanks to some advice from half eye. Anyway, glad you got it.

Tattoo Dave
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Offline E. Jensen

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Re: 2015 Primitive Archer bow trade works in progress
« Reply #934 on: August 25, 2015, 09:10:16 pm »
I'll be taking it out closer towards the weekend to shoot it.  Pics then! 

PS Blender came today too yay!!!!
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Offline bubbles

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Re: 2015 Primitive Archer bow trade works in progress
« Reply #935 on: August 25, 2015, 10:08:20 pm »
A smoothie and a new bow, that's a good day.
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Offline steelslinger

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Re: 2015 Primitive Archer bow trade works in progress
« Reply #936 on: August 25, 2015, 10:27:26 pm »
I dont know really know how to get this done, but I think there needs to be some pictorial proof that a member can create a serviceable bow.  I have been fortunate that in the years I have participated  I have gotten a shooting bow,  unfortunately if this continues experinced bowyers will not continue to participate.  The experience that the newer members can gain by handling a fine piece of craftsmanship that a veteran bowyer can create  will be lost. 

Maybe we need to go away from the vouching system for the newer guys , and go for the hard proof of pictures of safe shooting bows. Not necessarily a works of art, but bows that shoots an that you have no fear of.

I have participated the last few years solely for the purpose of being forced to make a  bow. if I don't do the trade I might not make a bow for a year. It forces me to ask questions and hone my skils to make a better bow. really try to make the best bow that I can so that whoever gets one of my bows can feel safe and be proud of their received bow.
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Offline lebhuntfish

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Re: 2015 Primitive Archer bow trade works in progress
« Reply #937 on: August 25, 2015, 10:46:12 pm »
Quote from: steelslinger on August 25, 2015, 10:27:26 pm
I dont know really know how to get this done, but I think there needs to be some pictorial proof that a member can create a serviceable bow.  I have been fortunate that in the years I have participated  I have gotten a shooting bow,  unfortunately if this continues experinced bowyers will not continue to participate.  The experience that the newer members can gain by handling a fine piece of craftsmanship that a veteran bowyer can create  will be lost. 

Maybe we need to go away from the vouching system for the newer guys , and go for the hard proof of pictures of safe shooting bows. Not necessarily a works of art, but bows that shoots an that you have no fear of.

I have participated the last few years solely for the purpose of being forced to make a  bow. if I don't do the trade I might not make a bow for a year. It forces me to ask questions and hone my skils to make a better bow. really try to make the best bow that I can so that whoever gets one of my bows can feel safe and be proud of their received bow.

I think you're right, I actually collected several full draw pictures and sent them to huisme and told him that I wasn't sure if I qualified because I have never sent a bow to anyone before. I take my bow building very serious because I am making a weapon. That could kill or badly injure someone either with a projectile or with a broken piece of wood flying back at their face. I've been lucky so far, I've only received a knot on my forehead and a bruised shoulder and shin bone from bows breaking. I have had wood shards stuck in my garage ceiling from one exploding on my tiller tree. This being said, I wouldn't even give a questionable bow to anyone. I would either try to fix it or try to break it. And then if I couldn't do either I would cut off the bad limb or just throw the whole thing in the burn pile. Handing off a unsafe bow is like shooting a cracked arrow, neither is a good idea. And I personally wouldn't do either...

Patrick
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Building a bow has been the most rewarding, peaceful, and frustrating things I have ever made with my own two hands!

Offline JoJoDapyro

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Re: 2015 Primitive Archer bow trade works in progress
« Reply #938 on: August 26, 2015, 10:26:28 am »
So, in the best interest of everyone here. Who has received a bow that they don't deem shootable? If there is only talk in private between certain people, the person who made the bow that someone deems unshootable, or unsafe may not be aware. There was a thread that Tyke started about the same time as the bow trade sign-ups that asked why there were so few "Veterans" signing up. The answer seemed to be very guarded, and not a lot of people were willing to give a real answer. Speaking in private with several people, I learned that unfortunately a lot of the bows that go out in this trade are junk, or at least not up to the standards of the veterans. It was also discussed that everyone was to do their best. I understood from the beginning that I may get a bow that I didn't like, and I am still ok with it. I gained a whole lot of respect from Bruce because he was completely honest with me from just about the moment that he got my bow, and wasn't comfortable with it. I am fine with that, I don't have an ego, and this was a good learning experience for me. Going forward I know that you gain a lot of confidence in a bow as you work on it. While i was comfortable with shooting the bow I sent, doesn't mean Bruce has to be, but he at least owed me the respect to tell me, and he did. Honesty is heavily regarded as a good trait, but people are too many times of throwing out that honesty in fear of hurting someones feelings.

In the end I am not here to make friends. I have, and that is great. But I am here to learn, and get people to help me see the issues with my work. If we all continue to coddle each other and give praise where it isn't due, we WILL continue to have these issues. I have offered to make another bow for Bruce, I feel that i at least owe him a bow he feels safe enough to shoot. There are people here who continue to help people learn and grow as craftsman, and I thank those people.

I will end my rant with the same statement that I have made several times here to no avail.

IF YOU HAVE YET TO SHIP, PLEASE LET THOSE OF US RUNNING THIS YEARS TRADE KNOW, SO WE AREN'T STUCK WONDERING IF WE NEED TO FIND SOMEONE TO REPLACE YOU.
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If you always do what you always did you'll always get what you always got.
27 inch draw, right handed. Bow building and Knapping.

Offline E. Jensen

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Re: 2015 Primitive Archer bow trade works in progress
« Reply #939 on: August 26, 2015, 10:40:27 am »
I hate this part of trades.  Came up in knife swaps as well.  A possible solution is to rank the bows.  Everyone finished by a deadline and posts a picture.  All participants give each bow a score 1-5.  Add up the scores.  1&2 swap.  3&4 swap.  Etc,etc.  In that way, everyone receives an item of similar quality to their own.  The veterans don't have to fear receiver junk, and you don't have a bunch of newbs joining simply to score a master bow. 

It worked quite well for the last knife swap I was in, except my recipient was unhappy and almost hurt himself seriously because he didn't realize the parring knife I made had an 'upside down' edge (I maintain that it is right side up for a paring knife and that all other paring knives have the edge on the wrong side).  He was a bit happier when he was finally convinced it wasn't an elaborate prank.
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Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: 2015 Primitive Archer bow trade works in progress
« Reply #940 on: August 26, 2015, 10:58:59 am »
It'll never change fella's. Accept what happens will continue to happen, or stay out of the swap. The same guys that start their bows a day before the deadline will do it again next year. The same guys that cant build a safe bow now will enter again next year and still not know how to build a safe bow. Its the nature of the beast.
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Offline Pappy

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Re: 2015 Primitive Archer bow trade works in progress
« Reply #941 on: August 26, 2015, 11:01:09 am »
I hope folks don't take this wrong but a lot are like me, I am not afraid of receiving junk, I just don't like deadlines, that is the only reason I don't get in these swaps. if everyone does the best they can do then that should be good enough.  :)Looks like some pretty nice stuff going out to me. :)
 Pappy
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Offline lebhuntfish

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Re: 2015 Primitive Archer bow trade works in progress
« Reply #942 on: August 26, 2015, 11:04:47 am »
How would that type of "grading"  work with bows? Different recipients are right or left handed, different weights because of use or hand/shoulder issues, and different draw lengths as well.

I personally would not want to receive a bow for me to use if it was tillered to 75@24 nor a bow tillered to 40@29. My personal draw length is 27in. I tend to shoot about 26 to 27 depending on the situation. I wouldn't mind a bow that was between 35 and 60 pounds at 27 in. I would think that a bow that was tillered to 24" would be unsafe in the hands of someone with a longer draw length. We have always heard, "never shoot anyone else's bow because it wasn't made to fit you.

As long as the bow is tillered correctly that is what should matter. If there is tool marks, uneven places and the finish isn't the greatest then that shouldn't matter. That comes with time and practice.

I noticed that during sign up there was some people that I never even heard of. When I checked them out I noticed that they normally showed up about "bow trade" time. They were pretty much dormant other than that. Now that doesn't make them a bow bower at all. I just think you should be an active member of PA to participate. I personally wouldn't mind helping run the next trade. Maybe with a few rule changes and be a little more strict on participation.

Maybe the bow designs should be checked out before the build.  Just my thoughts, Patrick
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Once an Eagle Scout, always an Eagle Scout!

Missouri, where all the best wood is! Well maybe not the straightest!

Building a bow has been the most rewarding, peaceful, and frustrating things I have ever made with my own two hands!

Offline bubby

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Re: 2015 Primitive Archer bow trade works in progress
« Reply #943 on: August 26, 2015, 11:08:50 am »
Joe i gave a truthfull answer that I was to busy to get in the trade i still have a bow that i promised someone to finish, no deadline but i hate dragging stuff out, that said I've run or helped run several trades on here and like ivory soap most of the guys on here are 99.99% pure true to their word and will put out the best they can and thats all i expect, but the there is that small % that just want a bow and send out crap that most guys would use for firewood, or are super late shipping and make it a royal pain for you guys running it or that never planned on shipping a bow, one xmas trade a guy kept whining he hadn't got anything so i sent him something, turns out he never shipped anything, that trade me and a few others had to ship 7 items as they never recieved from their person, people we need to be honest with ourselves and if you just can't do the trade don't get in it, rant over
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Offline bubby

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Re: 2015 Primitive Archer bow trade works in progress
« Reply #944 on: August 26, 2015, 11:10:01 am »
And for what it's worth i still have all the bows i recieved in bow swaps
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failure is an option, everyone fails, it's how you handle it that matters.
The few the proud the 27🏹
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