How I use a long string

[Crogacht]

    1. After floor tillering, I put the bow on the tiller tree using a string that hangs down to about where brace height would be
    2. I apply enough pressure to expose any areas that are not even I try to make the two limbs match each other.
    3. If the bow looks even I pull all the way to full draw weight even though it might only move a few inches.
    4. I continue to scrape, adjust and lower poundage testing at full draw weight with each pull until I reach a point 4" short of my target draw length at which time I brace the bow.
    5. Thats it.
 

That kind of sounds like what I do... except I have no idea what I'm doing or why, or what to look for while doing it or when to stop

After floor tiller, I put the long string on, which usually hangs down to brace height because I was trying to make the string the same length as the bow, but by the time I got the knot right and the B50 stretched it hangs down a bit

I pull on it and try to see what's wrong... I know SOMETHINGS wrong, but I stand for for awhile pulling on it trying to figure it out. Just choosing which limb is worse is a pretty big achievement.

If the bow looks like it won't explode, I pull to full draw weight, which for me is 35 - 50lb for my first attempts (Note the inconsistent target weight )

I continue to remove wood, sometimes in the wrong places, and poundage definitely lowers, I'll tell you that much. I decided to brace the last one at about 22 inches, so I was a bit late there.

That's it

It is encouraging, I guess,  to know that my approach will probably work once I actually know what I'm doing.

[SLIMBOB]

What you just described is exactly why I use very little long string and instead get mine braced early at just a few inches. With it low braced its easy to see the stronger limb. Find the areas on that limb that appear flat with the straight edge, mark them, and scrape, string on if I can. Exercise and look to see if it brought the two limbs even, and if the limb itself is bending more evenly. If not repeat. If so on both things, move to the other and do the same. When both are good increase the brace height and fine tune it.

[Dances with squirrels]

I use the long string instead of floor tillering most times and only use it up to the point that the limbs are flexing enough to get it braced... 7-10" of tip movement. The long string gives a false reading on draw weight and doesn't bend the outer limbs as much as the proper length string will. If one is mindful of, and has adequate experience with it, it can be used to tiller farther successfully, but new guys can end up with whip-ended, under weight bows, so I have always taught them to do as I mentioned above.... just use it to get the thing braced..

Another thing we should clarify.... not all "long strings" are created equal, or have the same effect. A string the same length as the bow that lays against the handle while unstrung is going to tell a different story than one that is 12" or more longer than the bow.

[Badger]

I use the long string instead of floor tillering most times and only use it up to the point that the limbs are flexing enough to get it braced... 7-10" of tip movement. (how hard are you pulling to get this tip movement?)
 The long string gives a false reading on draw weight and doesn't bend the outer limbs as much as the proper length string will.( Are you sure it gives a falso weight reading?)
 If one is mindful of, and has adequate experience with it, it can be used to tiller farther successfully, but new guys can end up with whip-ended, under weight bows, so I have always taught them to do as I mentioned above.... just use it to get the thing braced.. ( how heavy is your bow when you brace it?)

Another thing we should clarify.... not all "long strings" are created equal, or have the same effect. A string the same length as the bow that lays against the handle while unstrung is going to tell a different story than one that is 12" or more longer than the bow.

  ( this is why a long string should be only an inch or two longer than the bow, so it does give accurate weight readings)

  Even though your methos is about how the majority of us tiller a bow to brace it leaves a lot out when trying to expalin it to a new builder or experienced builder alike.

[Will H]

Steve, thank you for what you do fella! Your contributions to this community are great, from WRITING THE MASS PRINCIPAL to your recent threads, the way you think and your quest to quantify things has helped further bow building tremendously. I really think your on to something with this, it's so simple and it's been there the whole time I just never noticed it. I have a pretty good feel for what I build most of the time and can get a stave close to weight at first brace. I personally feel like that's better for a bow than bracing a 90# er for the first time when your target weight is 50#. This method is a great way to KNOW you are there. Big help for new designs a person is not used to or total nubes to bow building. Very cool.

Btw which do you think you have done more of? Posts to PA or bows built? I bet it's bows 

[Badger]

       Will, thanks for the kind words. I still build close to 100 bows a year and I have slowed way down. I do almost everything by feel. When I have to pass something on to someone else or explain something I often catch myself stumbling. I make an effort to try and find clear and consice methods of explaing something. I would imagine Pappy and even yourself by now can relate to this.
   
       I actually plan to give up bow making after this years flight shoot, I hate to but I found Ihave no ability to moderate myself so total abstinence is my only hope. If I come up with anything over the next few months that I feel is worthwhile I plan to pass it on, I might be a bit stubborn in the process.

[Will H]

Steve I hate to hear someone with your passion and ability giving up something they do so well. I can relate to that though. Do what you feel you need to, but I'll bet you pick it back up someday.

Please keep sharing your thoughts and ideas, regardless of anything. Don't worry about being stubborn. That's what it takes sometimes   

[Dances with squirrels]

Steve, I dont pull it over target weight at any time during the process.

[Badger]

Steve, I dont pull it over target weight at any time during the process.

  I know what you mean, with just a very minor adjustment to your present tecique, using a sting equal to about brace height ( loose  4" to 8"") You will know what draw weight at what draw length as well. You will know almost exactly how much over target bow weight you are when you brace it, and most importantly is is much easier to explain to someone who has never done it. If you are pulling full draw weight anywhere from 3" to 6" short of your full draw you will be from 8" to 15# heavy when first braced. And you won't have drawn it any further than you were when you were looking for 8 to 10" tip movement and you will not risk bracing it too early or too late.

[SLIMBOB]

Within reason, meaning a couple of inches of tip movement while floor tillering, can you brace too early?

[Badger]

Within reason, meaning a couple of inches of tip movement while floor tillering, can you brace too early?

  Of course you can, you have no measrement of what you are pulling. If you know the bow weight and design chances are you can do it just as well by feel, but you can't explain that to someone else.

[SLIMBOB]

I'm in agreement with you. I learned to do this by feel and I see the value in quantifying weight readings early on so that one can explain in real numbers what to do and when. No argument and I appreciate the work. My question is specific to only one point. Within reason, can you brace too early?  Your answer above was, yes you can because you have no measurement of what your pulling. You lack that measurement when floor tillering as well. It is done by feel. If you are getting 3 or 4 inches of tip movement leaning into it and you then string the bow at 2 inches brace height, can that be too early?  Steep recurves aside, a straight stave bow will be under no more strain than when bent at floor tiller.  If I want to measure weight at this point I can, and my reading will be nearly spot on to the true weight at normal brace. My limbs will be bending truer than a much longer string and any asymmetry between the limbs is immediately visible. Lastly any compressed wood from the belly ends up on the floor. I'm not married to any one way of doing any of this. What I do today is different than what I used to do, and If I see a better way I will do that next time. Just asking for your take on this Steve as I value your opinion.

[Badger]

  I doubt you could overstrain a bow at a low brace height  unless you were way out which you would likley feel. I have seen quite a few bows over the years braced too soon and taken some set. I admit I do it by feel unless I am not famiilar or comfortable with what I am working on.

   I think the methods might even be more useful to keep from comming lin light. I used it on that 60" 100# osage a couple of weeks ago and it was real simple knowing when to brace and no guesswork on making weight.

[Pappy]

I usually floor tiller just until is has some bend and both limbs are about the same,then cut nocks and go to the long string,just long enough to reach,but as was said by the time the knot is tied it hangs a little off the handle. Then go to
my tiller stick,moving an inch at a time down,making adjustments as I move down and reducing weight,when it looks about right as far as tip movement,never
really measure that,I stretch a string from tip to tip and see what it will look like at brace,if all is even and looks good I will brace the bow,never really thought about weighing it at that point, I do tend to brace them heavy,so i may start to check them at that point, if they are to heavy I may reduce more weight keeping things even before bracing them.thanks Steve  I hardly ever come in under weight but sometimes have a lot of reducing to do after I get it on the tiller tree and could be over straining them at that point,never really gave it any thought.Thanks again Steve. They generally work out OK but always room for improvement as far as set goes. Good topic. By the way ,you plan on just quit building bows and teach or get away from it all together,hope you plan on staying involved in some way.
  Pappy

[Badger]

  Pappy, I want to start shooting more, at least a couple of hunting trips per year and more 3-d shoots. I figure if I just build when I go to events I can't get too overy involved. If I could find a place to set up shop off my small property I would probably stay at it. Since I retired I seem to treat building like a job almost, at the crack of dawn I am on it LOL.