Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: upstatenybowyer on March 11, 2019, 05:03:08 pm
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Hi guys,
At this point I'm sure my D/R tiller checks are getting a bit old, so thank you for baring with me. :D
Aside from wondering what you think of the bend on this one, I'm wondering if I should add more deflex in the handle.
I think I'm getting the reflex where I like it and the gradual bend is coming along, but I'm wondering if deflexing more would help with stability and have any other benefits?
P.S. I know it looks like the outers could bend more, but given the unstrung profile, I think I like how much they're working.
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These R/D bows are a bit of a mystery to me. I'm working on one myself right now, so take this for what it's worth, but that looks like it's spot on to me. Sweet looking!
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That tiller job looks hard to do. Wow
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I don’t think there are any “rules” regarding the amount of reflex or deflex, or the ratio between them. It’s a personal choice and depends on the characteristics (bending limits) of the wood. As you already know, the “trick” is getting equal strain throughout working portions of the limbs, and achieving a smooth draw and a stable release…just like any other well-tillered bow. In my opinion, your bows prove that you’ve mastered that skill. Good job on this one too.
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Instead of being a nice smooth curve like yours, mine are peaked in the handle. All the deflex is in the splice. I use right around 10°. Maybe you could draw in some imaginary lines and figure roughly how yours compares.
Oh, I try and have a couple of inches of reflex. Tips ahead of handle :D so the more deflex there is the more reflex there has to be so you end up with some total reflex. I think the limit comes when the wood just won't hold that bend. Think Wilcox Duoflex :)
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Thanks Bob, they are mysterious indeed and one of the toughest things about them IMHO is what NonBacked mentioned about getting the strain evened out along the limbs. With a straight bow it's much easier to see. Best of luck with yours!
Yep hoosierf, it's tricky. (W
Your input is much appreciated NB. Thank you. :)
Don, I hear ya about maintaining tips ahead of the handle. I keep that a high priority, thus the small amount of deflex. This wood is ipe, which seems to do a great job handling the strain, so I'm thinking if I use it again I may splice in a bit more for ease of brace and smoothness of draw. I guess I should consider making a few different cauls for experimentation/different types of wood/etc.
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Whatever you do, your bottom is bending too much in the inner relative to the upper limb. Do the vertical pic and you'll see the greater hump in that section.
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Thanks PatM! I can see it. :)
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What PatM said ;D
I tried quite a few different laminated rd's and I find that more deflex definately feels smoother. I find that adding to much reflex can make them a little unstable at brace and does not always make them faster. I made a few who ended up with no more then 1 inch reflex and they are still extremely fast. I am talking ipe/bamboo bows here. Also did a few deflex static recurves and they are the fastest bows I ever made at 194 fps
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What kind of wood are you using Jeff? Is that a lighter color ipe?
I agree more deflex will make your bow smoother to draw, but I'm not sure it will do anything for performance. I think the reason this bow and the last few you've posted are fast is because there's very little working limb, and not a lot of set. Of course this requires very good tillering and proper wood selection, and you seem to have figured that out. :)
Like DC mentions, the more you deflex the more you'll have to reflex to get the same amount of total reflex. So the relief you get from the deflex is almost negated by the extra amount of reflex you add. It's all about finding the balance that works within your design and materials.
I personally love the way deflexed bows draw and shoot. I will continue to make R/D's for that reason alone.
It's almost time that you start teaching us how it's done with this style.
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Whatever you do, your bottom is bending too much in the inner relative to the upper limb. Do the vertical pic and you'll see the greater hump in that section.
I'm having a hard time seeing that bend in the inner . ???
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You did a good job getting that curved area to bend properly without going too far.
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This makes it look like the upper inner(just out of the fade) is bending too much I think.
Oh, maybe not.
Nevermind, but to me it looks like it's bending too much lower midlimb
And that, gentlemen, is how my mind works ;D ;D ;D
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I think it looks just fine. That being said, BOM winners aren't allowed to ask questions anymore :)
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I agree with Pearl..but that being said what would we talk about if something wasnt always out of tiller,, :NN
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Jeff I'm sure your better at that design than me. If I had to take more wood it might come from area between the deflex and the reflex. It looks like the outers are working nicely to my eye. Also area out of fades
Bjrogg
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also, if you shoot it alot,, the tiller may reveal somethings that you cant see now, you can compenstate for that,,, on your next one if need be,,
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so what you are asking is if your design should be different, judging from the full draw profile?
what do you want your design to do primarily? stability seems to be the criteria in the OP. of course this is a question of ts own and worthy of discussion :)
I am not experienced with choosing various designs for a given purpose (with r/d bows), but the recently reviewed bow simulator app lets you see what any given design looks like as it is drawn out.
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Thanks for chiming in Leon. I'm working on a deflex static recurve that I hope turns out even close to as fast as yours. (SH)
Woodley, it's there, just real subtle.
Ben, it's hickory/ipe/cherry. I got the ipe from the only place around here that sells it, so I never saw anything darker. It's great stuff though. Thanks for your thoughts. You definitely have helped me start to figure these things out.
Thanks Badge. I learned a lot from some input you gave me on a previous bow regarding outer limbs.
Thanks for turning that around Don. I think your mind is working just fine. :D
Aw, really Pearly? Well it's your fault for posting that last bow with the perfect tiller! Now I've gotta get um bending like that! (R ;D
I hear ya Brad. (--) And good point about how it could change/settle a bit over time. I'll be outside shooting it a ton when it gets a little warmer.
I was thinking the same thing as you BJ. I'm gonna do the rest with sandpaper and lots of pics in between. I'm gonna start w/ the area you mentioned.
Willie, I guess I'd like a little more stability at brace and maybe a tad smoother draw. I think maybe just a tad more deflex.
Thanks everyone )P(
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If you make your inner limbs wider you can cut back on working limb quite a bit and it will greatly stabilize the bow at brace.
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thanks for sharing that, Steve
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thanks for sharing that, Steve
+1
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Just testing my Gimp. This is what I want to do but I have no idea how I did it. By making a copy of the image and flipping it you can compare the limbs
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Jeff, I'm just playing with this photo editing and notice that with one of my bows the "two" arrows are a lot farther apart and my hands are right on top of each other. Yours aren't. Your bow is asymmetrical. I wonder if that changes the way the tiller should look. You have to squeeze those two bends into a shorter space. That means the bends have to be tighter. Just thinking out loud. Maybe you don't want to change it too much.
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Here's yours with the layers slid sideways a bit to make up for the asymmetry.