Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Knotty on June 17, 2016, 03:05:48 pm

Title: Hide Glue question!
Post by: Knotty on June 17, 2016, 03:05:48 pm
Hey guys, quick question, I've seen many people in the US use Knoxx Gelatine (or something like that) as a quick hide glue solution..

Since I live in Brazil I was wondering if ANY flavorless gelatine is made with the same ingredient?

I need it to sinew back a bow 😊
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: JW_Halverson on June 17, 2016, 03:43:10 pm
Yes, any brand of unflavored and unsweetened gelatin is hide glue. 
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: le0n on June 17, 2016, 03:55:11 pm
should all be the same ingredient, which is rendered from: connective tissue, cartilage, ears, bones, noses, tendons, skin, tails, marrow, hooves, knuckles, horns and any other gelatinous parts of the animal that you normally don't eat.

you know; the same ingredients that go into SPAM:
(http://www.tastyislandhawaii.com/images/spam_musubi/spam_can_open.jpg)
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: DC on June 17, 2016, 03:57:17 pm
I think if more people realised what from and how gelatin was made Jello's stock would hit the basement.
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: Knotty on June 17, 2016, 04:01:29 pm
Great! Thanks for the help guys! Appreciate it.
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: Strichev on June 17, 2016, 04:27:04 pm
A few years back (a decade, I think) a widespread rumor about gelatinous candy circulated my country. Supposedly it was made from bones of captured stray dogs. Now, I never saw that many stray dogs around (hardly any), but that doesn't disprove the rumor. Nowadays the rumor is that all the dogs are consumed by Chinese restaurants and such.  Along with ducks. And still I see almost no stray dogs around.

Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: bjrogg on June 17, 2016, 04:40:38 pm
More Spam please gotta love that stuff when it's hot
Out of the frying pan who cares what's in it.
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: mikekeswick on June 18, 2016, 04:39:20 am
More Spam please gotta love that stuff when it's hot
Out of the frying pan who cares what's in it.

Your waistline cares....;)   
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: JW_Halverson on June 20, 2016, 03:48:30 pm
More Spam please gotta love that stuff when it's hot
Out of the frying pan who cares what's in it.

Dredge lightly in corn starch before frying and it forms a crisp crust! 
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: Montanaoutdoors on June 29, 2016, 10:32:45 am
If you have sinew scraps you can make your own hide glue as well, the Knox and similar products are usually made from hoofs if I understand correctly, it works but isn't the best quality compared to sinew scraps that are cleaned
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: loon on June 29, 2016, 01:39:00 pm
From what I've heard, glue from rawhide should be better than Knox glue.
Even better would be fish bladder glue... was it cooked at 145F for 10 hours or something? apparently it gels slower

Knox should be just fine for everything but hornbows though
who knows? I don't. maybe it's good for hornbows
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: osage outlaw on June 29, 2016, 02:07:19 pm
Knox makes a fine glue.  I've had great results using it.  I've made glue from sinew scraps also.  They both work just fine.
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: lebhuntfish on June 29, 2016, 02:29:58 pm
Exactly what Osage outlaw said.

If I remember correctly,  TBB3 has a chart showing the strength of several different types of glues.  The Knox glue was actually a stronger than the other glues listed.  It's more consistent as well,  but that's my experience. 

Patrick
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: DC on June 29, 2016, 02:41:23 pm
In TBB1 Epoxy is 44lbs, Knox is 43lbs. Hide glue is 38,sinew is 36, fish is 33. Knox is good stuff. It is not made of hooves, you can't make glue out of hooves. Knox is a combo of bones, connective tissue. and rawhide.
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: bow101 on June 29, 2016, 03:05:08 pm
should all be the same ingredient, which is rendered from: connective tissue, cartilage, ears, bones, noses, tendons, skin, tails, marrow, hooves, knuckles, horns and any other gelatinous parts of the animal that you normally don't eat.

you know; the same ingredients that go into SPAM:
(http://www.tastyislandhawaii.com/images/spam_musubi/spam_can_open.jpg)

Kinda of like Chicken Nuggets and cheap hot dogs.   ;D
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: Dances with squirrels on June 29, 2016, 03:50:44 pm
Glue? I don't know about that, but I haven't had Spam in over 40 years, and I'm still trying to get it out of my arteries.
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: le0n on June 29, 2016, 04:22:21 pm
Knox is good stuff. It is not made of hooves, you can't make glue out of hooves. Knox is a combo of bones, connective tissue. and rawhide.

^^ you're right, i was just popping off animal body parts that we don't consume. my bad ;D

but you can make glue out of hooves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoof_glue (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoof_glue)



Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: Knotty on June 29, 2016, 04:26:39 pm
Well.. Everybody talks so much about this Knox glue, but how do you actually do it?
Just follow the recipe listed in the gelatin box?
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: jeffp51 on June 29, 2016, 05:19:46 pm
make it about the consistency of syrup--maybe 1/4 cup (60 ml) per package  It is hard to mess up.
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: Knotty on June 29, 2016, 05:22:42 pm
Alright, thanks Jeff!
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: osage outlaw on June 29, 2016, 05:35:30 pm
I mixed a few packs of gelatin with cold water.  I got it to the consistency of thin applesauce then heated if for a few seconds in the microwave.  That thinned it out to thin syrup like Jeff said.  You want to keep your glue warm but not to hot.  A double boiler set up worked the best for me.  If your glue is to hot the sinew will curl up and be ruined. 

Have you went through the How-To section on here?  There is a lot of good information that might help you out.  I think there are a few sinew backed bow threads there.  I know Pearly Drums has a good one posted.
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: osage outlaw on June 29, 2016, 05:38:37 pm
Here is Pearly's thread.  The sinew process starts out on page 4 or 5.  It will help you out.

https://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,31738.0.html
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: mwosborn on June 29, 2016, 05:52:52 pm
Hide glue is essentially made out of a type of protein called collagen.  There are several types of collagen found in living things.  Bone, skin, tendons, muscle all have various amounts and types of collagen.  Raw hide (skin) and tendons are obviously what we typically use to make hide glue.  Knox gelatin is basically ground up collagen.
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: Knotty on June 29, 2016, 05:56:38 pm
Awesome! Thank you all 😊
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: bradsmith2010 on June 29, 2016, 06:45:09 pm
if you are in a survival situation, you could eat your bow if need be,, :)
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: lebhuntfish on June 29, 2016, 11:08:51 pm
In TBB1 Epoxy is 44lbs, Knox is 43lbs. Hide glue is 38,sinew is 36, fish is 33. Knox is good stuff. It is not made of hooves, you can't make glue out of hooves. Knox is a combo of bones, connective tissue. and rawhide.

Thanks DC,  I didn't have them in front of me.

Patrick
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: bubby on June 29, 2016, 11:51:05 pm
My glue is a base of knox and sinew and rawhide scraps i keep it in the freezer and thaw it in the microwave till it is hot enough to use and when it cools pop it back in the micro
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: loon on June 30, 2016, 12:14:18 am
So a Knox and water solution should be heated to 150-160F...
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: Pat B on June 30, 2016, 08:55:38 am
You should be able to put your fingers in the hot glue comfortably.  I use a crock pot($5 from thrift shop) as a double boiler to keep my glue hot. I add water as the glue in the pot gels if necessary.
 Isaia, you might find fish air bladders at a local fish market. That makes a very strong glue also.
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: DuBois on June 30, 2016, 09:03:15 am
A few years back (a decade, I think) a widespread rumor about gelatinous candy circulated my country. Supposedly it was made from bones of captured stray dogs. Now, I never saw that many stray dogs around (hardly any), but that doesn't disprove the rumor. Nowadays the rumor is that all the dogs are consumed by Chinese restaurants and such.  Along with ducks. And still I see almost no stray dogs around.
Maybe this somewhat strengthens the claim. Where have all the dogs gone?? Who cares, it's time for Jello!!
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: Knotty on June 30, 2016, 10:41:54 am
Pat , surprisingly here in Brazil , they only sell fresh fish in areas with beaches etc.
Most of the fish we can buy here is frozen.

I'm used to just going in the market in Italy and buying myself some fresh fish, but that doesn't happen here.

Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: JoJoDapyro on June 30, 2016, 11:11:27 am
A few years back (a decade, I think) a widespread rumor about gelatinous candy circulated my country. Supposedly it was made from bones of captured stray dogs. Now, I never saw that many stray dogs around (hardly any), but that doesn't disprove the rumor. Nowadays the rumor is that all the dogs are consumed by Chinese restaurants and such.  Along with ducks. And still I see almost no stray dogs around.
Maybe this somewhat strengthens the claim. Where have all the dogs gone?? Who cares, it's time for Jello!!

We have a joke that all the best Chinese restaurants are right next to pet stores. Whatever, pass the sweet and sour "Chicken".
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: DC on June 30, 2016, 11:29:41 am
Knox is good stuff. It is not made of hooves, you can't make glue out of hooves. Knox is a combo of bones, connective tissue. and rawhide.

^^ you're right, i was just popping off animal body parts that we don't consume. my bad ;D

but you can make glue out of hooves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoof_glue (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoof_glue)

I was going by TBB1 page 203 where Tim Baker says,
"Two other non-sources of glue are hooves and horn. Despite common belief, dictionary definitions, encyclopedia entries, and other literature, glue cannot be made from hooves."

Now I'm stuck between Tim and Wikipedia ;D  I'm inclined to believe Tim. I think horses feet would be an excellent source of glue because there is a lot of connective tissue, ligaments and stuff that have a lot of collagen in it, but the hoof itself is just keratin. It's not important, just interesting. ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: lebhuntfish on June 30, 2016, 11:52:12 am
You should be able to put your fingers in the hot glue comfortably.  I use a crock pot($5 from thrift shop) as a double boiler to keep my glue hot. I add water as the glue in the pot gels if necessary.
 Isaia, you might find fish air bladders at a local fish market. That makes a very strong glue also.

+1
I put 3 packets in about 1/3 cup of water and sometimes I add a little more water.  I let the Knox dissolve until it's soaked up all the water.  Then do exactly what Pat said. If it's to hot for your fingers it's to hot to use.

Patrick
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: mwosborn on June 30, 2016, 05:37:04 pm
So a Knox and water solution should be heated to 150-160F...

I would say that is on the edge of too hot.  You can dip a small piece of scrap sinew into the glue and if it denatures and curls up you know it is too hot.
Title: Re: Hide Glue question!
Post by: mullet on June 30, 2016, 09:08:17 pm
When I am working with hide glue I keep it warm on a double burner hot plate. Each side has a dial that I can control the heat.