Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Andrea S on February 25, 2008, 04:40:58 pm

Title: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: Andrea S on February 25, 2008, 04:40:58 pm

Please, first let me introduce myself. My name is Andrea, and I am currently a college student in Montana, but I am originally from Illinois. I was bitten by the archery bug when I was fairly young, 6th grade or so, but after a few years, life caught up with me and bowmaking fell by the wayside. I've never really gone beyond crudely tillered black willow bows, and the project my father and I planned, making a hickory board bow, never happened due to changes in his work schedule and the start of the school year.

But here I am, in college, with all the glorious wilderness of Montana right outside my door, begging me to go roving with bow in hand, and not a bow or arrow to my name. I've been perusing these forums, and the itch is just growing stronger. I just need to know, from the wisdom of all the knowledgeable folks on this board, whether or not this is a feasible undertaking. Here are my resources:

A basement with room to work
A local antique store with lots of nice drawknives and other tools
Ace Hardware & Home Depot
2 woodworking rubber-tipped spring clamps
1 dremel tool
A lot of determination

I know I need some wood, I've been looking at purchasing a stave or two from eBay. I've got a small box of tooling leather scraps coming in the mail, so if I teach myself and get any good at it, I'll have something to barter with to get a proper bowstring, some field points, or some other resources.

So, can it be done? Where do I even begin?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/bambamthesheep/mt3.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/bambamthesheep/mt2.jpg)

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: Auggie on February 25, 2008, 04:56:23 pm

Id say youve got the first two good things, determination and the people here! You might also want to check out George T.s  site,( for a board bow) hes got lots of good info there,  i also enjoy his input on this site. Get started,ask as many questions as you wish youll get lots of answers,every one likes to see pics, and welcome to PA. Auugie. 

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: wolfsire on February 25, 2008, 04:58:26 pm

"A lot of determination."  That is about all you need to get started, maybe some sharp rocks and wood, but the rest is gravy.

You definately can to it.

Bows and Arrows:

Bow- you said a stave from e-bay, but at Home Depot could can get a board to work and there is bound to be some wood in Montana that will make a bow if you feel like cutting your own.  Pine is not that good, but it might may you some arrows, if it will split straight.  If not, there are dowels at Home Depot and you probably can find some shoots.

My first metal points were cut with a drimel out of thrift store butter knives.  Then I switched to nails.  I figured out that broadheads are best left for hunting big game.

Keep searching around these forums and asking questions and before you know it the shavings will be flying followed shortly by your arrows.

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: Coo-wah-chobee on February 25, 2008, 05:03:46 pm

...Like Auggie said. Jawge's site.......................http:mysite.verizon.net/georgeandjoni/archer.html. ..............bob

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: Andrea S on February 25, 2008, 05:10:44 pm

Oh, add to the list of available resources: Jim Hamm's Bows & Arrows of the Native Americans. Thank you, university libraries! Actually, building some type of Plains Indian bow would be of particular interest to me, partially because I'm in a class called American Indians in Montana and I could probably get some extra credit, and because being here has piqued my interest in the Native American style of bows and arrows.

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: DanaM on February 25, 2008, 05:13:25 pm

Welcome to P.A. Andrea, read and study same as you do for your classes, lots of good info in on here, Jawges' site.
Traditional Bowyers Bible Vol 1 is a good book to start with, but perhaps even better is Paul Comstocks book The Bent Stick.
Then get yerself a board and start making shavings ;D As for tools a draw knife is ok, but I think a Farriers rask or a surform would be easier
to learn with, a 4 in 1 rasp from the hardware store is cheap and useful, a chainsaw file for nocks, a knife works for a scraper, you will need a tillering tree or stick,
a length of light rope for a tillering string and thats about it. When ya need a bowstring give a holler someone will send ya one I'm sure.

Have fun ;D

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: John K on February 25, 2008, 05:25:40 pm

Welcome to the site ! Lots of good people here to learn from  ;D

Nice pictures too !!

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: waterlogged on February 25, 2008, 05:31:21 pm

Hey, nice to see someone is thinking the same way as me. I'm on my second year of bowyery at college, and it couldn't be better. Drop me a pm, and I'll see what I can do for you. One thing I do have to say: watch out for your campus police, I almost got in deep when a campus safety officer saw me with my drawknife... Luckily for me, the director of campus safety thought what I was doing was 'cool', and he just told me to not assult anyone.

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: Ryan_Gill_HuntPrimitive on February 25, 2008, 05:40:41 pm

i'd personally say go straight for a stave off ebay, you can get a hickory or elm stave pretty darn cheap and it will be plenty good for you, use the dowels from homedepot for arrows to get you started- Ryan
what college you goind to?,   those pictures look like the missoula area

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: medicinewheel on February 25, 2008, 05:47:59 pm

hi andrea! - welcome to PA!
WOW nice neighborhood you have there! nothing like that over here in germany (not even where i live  ;D ) so when you need a string for your first bow, just let me know what you want and i'll bring it along...well...than again...maybe i'll just send it in the mail  8)
frank

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: JackCrafty on February 25, 2008, 06:12:37 pm

There are two different worlds of materials out there: lumberyard stuff and wood you harvest yourself (green).  The lumberyard is the fastest & easiest route.....but you will need to make a long bow (so it won't break), which is not exactly Plains Indian style.

For Plains Indian style equipment (and for extra credit) I suggest you harvest the wood yourself.  First check piles of lawn/tree trimmings, ads for free firewoood, and any other waste-wood sources in your area....before you go trouncing into the woods with an axe.

Get yourself a heat source (like a heat gun) so you can shape the bow into a "double curve" and also to straighten the shoots.

If you're going to use a drawknife, you're going to need something to hold the stave while shaving it.....or you can take the easy way out and use a bandsaw at the university's wood shop.  You'll also need to dry the green wood somehow....but in the cold (where you are) any heated indoor location will work just like a low-temperature kiln.

The cheapest source for materials (staves, feathers, arrowheads, real sinew) is ebay (as already mentioned)....or a friend who is into primitive stuff.  We all carry quite an inventory.  ;)

I suggest you make 2 bows and 24 arrows (all at once).  Pick the best bow and then pick the best three arrows.  Then go out and shoot 'til you drop.  ;D

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: hawkbow on February 25, 2008, 07:22:06 pm

Andrea S, Welcom to the PA community .... you have all you need, determination and the great state of Montana, ( I am an old Hamilton Boy)...keep to this site and someone will surely help you to get started ... I am a hunter and avid archer but not a bowyer, or you would already have a stave headed your way... good luck and send pics of your equipment as you get it done ... Mike a/ho

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: Andrea S on February 25, 2008, 08:59:20 pm

Thanks for all the support, folks... it's good to know I have someplace to turn to when things get hairy. I'm actually in Bozeman, those pictures are from Hyalite Canyon (the big jagged mountain is Hyalite Peak).

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: Slivershooter on February 25, 2008, 09:36:40 pm

Andrea,
Welcome to PA, building selfbows is a lot of fun.  If you run into problems, have questions, or need some help, I run a selfbow building class for four friends from Bozeman on Tuesday evenings at my place in Big Sky, and you are welcome to join us.  The classes will run until the opening day of bear season, April 15, or until all the bows are completed.  Send me a PM if you are interested.  If needed, I might be able to arrange a ride up the canyon with the other budding bowyers.  Also, I have a good sized stash of bow wood and I'm sure there is either a stave or set of billets that would make a good bow, but most likely you would have to settle for Osage.

Oh ya, I graduated from MSU, GO BOBCATS!!!!!!!!

Walt Francis

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: wolfsire on February 25, 2008, 10:09:37 pm

Quote from: Slivershooter on February 25, 2008, 09:36:40 pm

Andrea,
...but most likely you would have to settle for Osage.

 :D

Andrea, if you did not know, many consider Osage to be the best bow wood.

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: huntertrapper on February 25, 2008, 11:58:35 pm

good luck with your joruney in primitive and yes once you get the bug it stuck on you. ;D i know it happened for me. and this site is fantastic for all your needs and info. a load of great fellas on here.

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: cowboy on February 26, 2008, 12:08:59 am

Welcome aboard Andrea! Nice pictures. Can it be done? Sounds like your already well on your way ;).

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: Bishop on February 26, 2008, 12:33:55 am

Andrea
welcome aboard! But be warned, once you start you wont be able to stop. There are some folks on here who can make a bow with nothing but a stave and some sharp rocks, ahem...Jamie, so you should have plenty to work with from the resources mentioned. Good luck and dont be shy about asking questions.
Bishop

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: Pat B on February 26, 2008, 01:46:53 am

Welcome to PA, Andrea. You're in good company. If you can swing it, take Walt up on his offer. Lots of knowledge in that camp.     Pat

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: OldBow on February 26, 2008, 01:51:57 am

First of all, where did you take your pictures?
Hyalite Canyon = MSU
The Bitterroots = UofM

Your most scare resource is time. With all the other resources you list, you can most certainly make a bow.

Your library might have The Traditional Bowers Bible (I) and between that and this forum, you're set.
Ubiquitous across the state is chokecerry, serviceberry, and hawthorn. All are good bow woods. Home Depot and Lowes will sell you a decent 1x6 board of red oak.  If the grains along the edge are all parallel you can make a decent bow.

Keep in touch.
OldBow (Don Berg)
Missoula

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: OldBow on February 26, 2008, 01:56:42 am

Quote from: Andrea S on February 25, 2008, 08:59:20 pm

Thanks for all the support, folks... it's good to know I have someplace to turn to when things get hairy. I'm actually in Bozeman, those pictures are from Hyalite Canyon (the big jagged mountain is Hyalite Peak).

I've been on top of Hyalite Peak!!  That gorgeous cabin on your way to the trailhead is Window Rock Station where I lived for 5 months scattered out over several years doing research on lodgepole pine.  You can rent the cabin from the Bozeman Ranger District.  Great Fun!

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: PK on February 26, 2008, 02:12:01 am

Gosh Thats pretty scenery, These Guys and Gals, I know your there, are really smart.

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: 330bull on February 26, 2008, 05:03:25 am

Hi Andrea,

I'd recommend you not spend any money on eBay and let me send you some Vine Maple and Hazelnut staves for free.  All you have to do is pay for shipping.  If you like I can also rough them out with my bandsaw so all you need is a mean rasp and a pocket knife for final finishing.  Just send me a PM if you are interested.  I expect nothing in return except for Karma to pay a visit in the future.   ;)

Sound cool?

Joe

Ps.  Regarding tools.  For what it's worth I own a Vine Maple bow hand made by John Strunk with only a hatchet and a pocket knife.  It's 70# @ 26" and is the most efficient self bow I have ever shot.  So... you really don't need much.

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: Keenan on February 26, 2008, 05:22:15 am

 Wecome Andrea, You've come to a great cummunity of generous people who are more then willing to help.  Enjoy the journey and ask all the questions you want. Just a fair warning,,,very few evry stop at just one bow. it can be very addicting

  Right On Joe  ;) ;D ;D You are a good man.      Keenan

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: jamie on February 26, 2008, 12:54:35 pm

andrea bishop already beat me to my answer. you'd be surprised how little you need to build a bow. good luck to ya and ask as many questions as needed

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: stiknstring on February 26, 2008, 02:50:50 pm

Hey if a knucklehead like me in Shepherd Montana can build a bow then pretty much anyone can lol.  Lots of us around Montana if you get the urge to meet for coffee or hunting.....good people on this site who will not steer you wrong. Welcome to the fold Andrea and keep us all posted on your bowmaking endeavors/needs/wants/ etc......

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: Bishop on February 26, 2008, 02:58:09 pm

Jamie
i couldnt help bragging on ya a little bit.
Bishop

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: Aries on February 27, 2008, 06:19:27 pm

Love the scenery, I am jealous, central oklahoma isn't to much for mountains lol.  As for your bow string, if your resourses  are limited you can make a quick easy endless stlye bowstring from the 70# artificial sinew sold from 3riversarchery.com,  you can buy a 900' for something like 7$. There is a limited amount of string stretch, which will cost you something like 5 fps, but i think the economics make up for it.  Ty

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: Wulamoc on February 27, 2008, 10:53:25 pm

These are good people.  Welcome to te fire!  Wells

Title: Re: College-style Primitive...Can it be done?
Post by: stickbender on March 01, 2008, 11:11:18 pm

     Andrea;
     congratulations, on finding P.A. .  Sounds like you are on your way to making a bow.  That was a trememdous offer that 330 bull made you.  Take him up on it.  Especially with the preforms.  Go aghead and make a few bows, and then start looking around for local wood.  You might try Cotton Wood, or Maple.  I don't know how much Maple you have in Bozeman, but you should have plenty of Cotton Wood.  As for points try using beef bone.  Pork bones, are too brittle.  Some people like to use rib bones, but I like to use leg bones.  Try the pet store. Or Elk, Deer, and Antelope too. Since you have a dremel, you can polish them up really nice.  They take a really nice polish, with a nice sheen.  I use a jewelers saw, but you can use a coping saw. If you have access to a grinder, that helps too.  Lots of bone dust.  If you have bones that are dark, or stained, just soak them in Hydrogen Peroxide, for a day or so.   Draw the style point you want on the bone, with a pencil, and then cut it out.  Then use a mill file to put the bevels on the edges, and to thin it down some.  I like to leave about a 3/4 inch or so stem at the back, and I thin it down about 1/8 of an inch or so, and leave about 1/16 of an inch on each side of the back of the head for the shaft to butt up against. Then you can taper the shaft down to size to make a smooth profile so there is less resistance on entering the target.  I use a triangular shape, and make it diamond shape in cross section.  I make the thickness of the back of the head about a little over 1/4 inch, and taper it down towards the point.
I hope this helps.  If you would like, I will make you one, and send it to you so you can see what I am talking about.  I would send you a picture, but I am not the most computer literate person. So my ability to send you a picture, is rather limited.
If you want one send me an e-mail with a po box, or wherever you want me to send it.  My e-mail is curly494@bellsouth,net
be sure to reference the bone arrowhead, so I don't delete the e-mail.  Good luck, and enjoy.

                                                                      Stickbender