Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: sleek on March 23, 2016, 10:44:40 pm
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Well last time I went for broke, it broke. Taking another try. 60#@28 49" ttt stiff handle, sap back osage.
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Good luck!
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Yep good luck, can't quite figure why you would want to :-\ but good luck just the same. :)
Pappy
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Pappy, these short bows have many benefits and are real sweethearts to shoot. Brush and tree stands become much easier to deal with. They are super quiet even without silencers, completely dead in the hand on release, and 5hey pack a good punch as well. Not to mention they require much less wood which is always a good thing when looking for osage staves.
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The New York Times (18 March 1923);
"Why did you want to climb Mount Everest?" This question was asked of George Leigh Mallory, who was with both expeditions toward the summit of the world’s highest mountain, in 1921 and 1922, and who is now in New York. He plans to go again in 1924, and he gave as the reason for persisting in these repeated attempts to reach the top......
"Because it's there."
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I completely understand the "because it's there", I have done a lot of that from character wood, just form my experience they won't last long at that draw length being that short. Your time, your wood so have fun that is all that really matters. Look forward to seeing it in action. :)
Pappy
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Sleek its ok to have a goal of 60#@28" but if it starts taking set at 24" it might not be a good idea to keep going any further. I have built quite a few 50# at 28" shorties most of them took to much set, they are also very hard to be accurate with. Your wood will tell you when you have gone far enough.
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If it can be done I'll bet you can do it Kevin.
And, if it works, "Chapter 11" would make a good name for the bow. :D
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What Pappy said. Jawge
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Are we supposed to push the "Notify" button when people are doing particularly outside-the-box bow builds or is that just for really offensive stuff? :o :o :o
OneBow
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Are we supposed to push the "Notify" button when people are doing particularly outside-the-box bow builds or is that just for really offensive stuff? :o :o :o
OneBow
I don't think so, but when you ask for opinions you tend to get them. I have always built outside the box stuff strictly because I enjoy doing it, I have also wasted a lot of wood. Won't stop me from doing more though.
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<snip>And, if it works, "Chapter 11" would make a good name for the bow. :D
...and if it breaks you could call it 'File 13'!!! ;D ;) ;D :laugh: - OneBow
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Sometimes the same skill set that allows us to attempt this type of build is the same skill set that tells us to run the other way, and quickly.
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I will make a believer of you yet pearly. These bows held up well at ojam and they were shot many many times.
Because I am only one guy making these short guys to last and perform well, I cant produce the numbers to really test 100s of them. But I can shoot what I make over and over again. How many months of shooting would it take to prove its a safe reliable bow?
Thanks for the vote of confidence Paul. We shall see if its warranted. I just cut a 62"stave down to 49" and reflexed the handle. Will boil and recurve the tips today, then hopefully get my fades deflexed. Tomorrow starts the profile and tiller work.
Badger, I will be monitoring set closely. I shouldnt take much. My deflex I put in will equal what set it would take otherwise. I hope for an inch or less total. Out of curiosity, why do they make accuracy difficult? I shot pretty well with them. If I am doing something right id like to know because its probably an accident and id like to focus on it.
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Eric, I have no idea what that notify button is for either.
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I get it. I once did a buildalong for "No Chance".
http://web.archive.org/web/20080302182030/http://residents.bowhunting.net/sticknstring/nochance.html
(http://web.archive.org/web/20080302182030/http://residents.bowhunting.net/sticknstring/nc17.JPG)
Have fun. Just wear your protection young man.
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I loved the last one mate and will look forward to seeing the next one! :D
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Are we supposed to push the "Notify" button when people are doing particularly outside-the-box bow builds or is that just for really offensive stuff? :o :o :o
Eric, I have no idea what that notify button is for either.
hitting that button is to somewhat 'subscribe' to the thread/discussion. i believe you'll get a notification when someone replies something new to the particular thread; but not necessarily a notification for each post after that initial notification. once you revisit the thread, i believe it'll reset the notification trigger.
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Just click the button and read what it says. Sorry to offer such a simple suggestion.....
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Sleek, I hope the best for your bows if you like them,, thats all that matters,, I would like to know how they perform, I don't think you have posted any chrono results or maybe I missed it,, it would be nice to compare the design you are working on with other designs,, I like a short bow to hunt with as well, and understand that, I just shoot a short bow,, with a shorter draw,, even a 40 inch sinew back,, that draws 20 inches( I shot it through a chrono and it will kill a deer but does not shoot that hard for its draw weight) I have been comparing chrono results since the first MOJam, and it is fun for me to see what different bows can do :)
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Have at it sleek, here's my unsolicited two cents worth if you do it do it right with sinew and horn if you want it to last😉
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Eric, I have no idea what that notify button is for either.
Sleek accuracy is a problem on short bows for a number of reasons that all tend to aggravate one another. Finger pinch, they tend to stack at the end so very slight changes in draw length can affect trajectory quite a bit. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy making and shooting shorties because they are fun, I prefer them for rabbit hunting. I use about a 23" draw though went hunting rabbits in the bush. Do you remember Tom Mills from Pasadena. He was pretty good with shorties and he also used a short draw with them.
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Have at it sleek, here's my unsolicited two cents worth if you do it do it right with sinew and horn if you want it to last😉
There is no doubt to the truth of that statement. But i believe strongly i can do the same with just wood.
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Eric, I have no idea what that notify button is for either.
Sleek accuracy is a problem on short bows for a number of reasons that all tend to aggravate one another. Finger pinch, they tend to stack at the end so very slight changes in draw length can affect trajectory quite a bit. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy making and shooting shorties because they are fun, I prefer them for rabbit hunting. I use about a 23" draw though went hunting rabbits in the bush. Do you remember Tom Mills from Pasadena. He was pretty good with shorties and he also used a short draw with them.
Yes I recall him, but it has been some time sense I have seen him. Wasnt he a paleoplanet guy?
Regarding finger pinch, I haven't noticed it to be uncomfortable. Perhaps pat, eric, or kohn would make a comment on how the pinch is on it. Of course, its only 26, not 28 like this will be. The recurve tends to stop stacking from being an issue.
If I get good shooters, I should send you one and see what your opinion is on it.
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Sleek, I hope the best for your bows if you like them,, thats all that matters,, I would like to know how they perform, I don't think you have posted any chrono results or maybe I missed it,, it would be nice to compare the design you are working on with other designs,, I like a short bow to hunt with as well, and understand that, I just shoot a short bow,, with a shorter draw,, even a 40 inch sinew back,, that draws 20 inches( I shot it through a chrono and it will kill a deer but does not shoot that hard for its draw weight) I have been comparing chrono results since the first MOJam, and it is fun for me to see what different bows can do :)
It was too windy and cloudy last weekend. Maybe soon I can get a chance to chrono them.
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-03/20160324_160055_zpskihqllqg.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-03/20160324_160055_zpskihqllqg.jpg.html)
If there is a difficult part about this type of build, its the fade deflex.
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Probably help a bunch if you go bendy and build the handke up with cork
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Im sure it would bubby, if my goal was just to pull a short bow back far. But I want a stiff handle. I will get it, just need to get the techniques down.
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I still don't understand why you aren't following the proven method Lukasz showed ? ???
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well ok, I think hickory, might hold up better and easier to bend, thats why the make rocking chairs out of it,,
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I still don't understand why you aren't following the proven method Lukasz showed ? ???
Wasnt he using sinew on his bows? I dont want sinew. Unless you mean someone else. But I cant be sure I dont remember things well.
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That's irrelevant to getting the bend.
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I need to revisit the thread then. I dont recall seeing how he did it.
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I still don't understand why you aren't following the proven method Lukasz showed ? ???
Pat do you have a link to that?
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http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,28969.0.html
I think this is the link. I dont have a table or anything like that to make those bends. Maybe I need a 2x12x5 to put pegs in.
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Yes, it's not hard to improvise a pegboard.
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The real magic of his set up is his steam box. That I need to figure out. And make it work with osage.
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He's boiling the whole thing. You just need to steam the whole midsection.
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I was able to finally get the profile shape i am after, and am quite happy with it. Its exactly what inam looking for. It has the deflex in it to take up what set it would have so hypothetically it should take no set. That should boost performance in efficiency.
Due to its design this style of bow can not store the energy of an equal draw weight and length bow of longer design. So I am trying to make up for stored energy loss by using what it does have more efficiently. This bow should behavewell on arrow eenergy especially with a heavier grain one to eek all the energy this bow has to offer.
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Pics or it didn't happen!
Ok, I believe you, but pics or...we'll be dissatisfied with lack of pics, so there!
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70#@28 1" set.
Soon as my kid get home yall can see.
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-03/20160331_172531_zps82xikzyg.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-03/20160331_172531_zps82xikzyg.jpg.html)
Arrow is 28 half way up the field point. Its a hard draw for me.
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-03/20160331_172359_zpsqohkrgx3.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-03/20160331_172359_zpsqohkrgx3.jpg.html)
I tried to get it to 28 but yall just dont know how hard for me that is. Its probably 27 here. I need another fd pic to satisfy the curious.
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My curiosity is "satisfied" Kevin.
( Not that I ever doubted ya...) ;)
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Thanks bud. Next time we meet up wanna shoot it?
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Thanks bud. Next time we meet up wanna shoot it?
Ha Ha ... ::)
Thanks for the offer but you know my new policy on shooting other people's bows. :o
(Plus my old shoulder might have some say in the matter as well.)
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Id like to add that the original plan was to have this bow sapwood backed. But due to it cracking on the back when I deflexed the fades I decrowned it. But, the decrowned back has a yellow heartwood streak down the back and sap on the edges. Looks pretty cool. I am gluing the handle on now soni will post more pics when thats dried and shaped.
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Do you have an unbraced pic? I was just curious to the original profile.
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I will get you one tomorrow. Im gluing up the handle and dont wanna move it.
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Interesting profile. You did a good job with the tiller
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Pretty wild!
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Hey cool project. What does the unbraced profile look like? That should tell us a lot about the cast.
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sleek, nicely done. Jawge
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-03/20160331_172255_zpsvcdmnouc.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-03/20160331_172255_zpsvcdmnouc.jpg.html)
Here it is braced. I will get an un braced profile tomorrow after the handle has dried.
Thanks everyone for the compliments. I look forward to good performance from this one. I just wish I could get the set down by half. Of course, this is not heat treated so perhaps if I do that it will help.
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Nice job. :)Nice tiller. :)
Pappy
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I don't see what's so hard about making a 70#@28"..49" ttt bow :o and ;)...very cool project you did it justice for sure sleek!
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Awesome!!
force/draw curve or some measurements would be nice
full draw pic looks scary :o kinda like a korean bow
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That is absolutely awesome Sleek!
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If you wanted to make a 70# @28" bow that is 49" ttt out of Osage Orange, assuming that your Osage Orange has a MOR of 18,650 and a MOE of 1,689,000, then the math for a pyramid-type bow shows a bow of 0.329" thick and 4.35" wide.
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But he's not making a pyramid bow....
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That's one heck of a job you have done there Sleek.
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20160401_121312_zpspgs3ierd.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20160401_121312_zpspgs3ierd.jpg.html)
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I am strongly considering reflexing the limbs to bring up string tension some. With only an inch of set I thinkni can stress the wood more. And I can drop the draw weight some also as I do that but if I drop draw weight I do believe string tension drops so that could be a waste of time.
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But he's not making a pyramid bow....
I guess that's what I get for not reading the whole post.
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1" of set? How are you measuring that man? I cant make a 64" bow take only 1". But that could be my problem alone.
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Awesome bow sleek. Hope you can bring em to mojam this year!
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Are those 4" tiles? That would give you maybe 2" of change from unbraced to braced? I was messing with lots of deflex and I started to wonder if there was a "law of deminishing returns" going on. I mean if you have to reflex the tips and limbs to make up for the draw weight that the deflex stole is there any gains to be made? I guess you get draw length on a short bow, anything else?
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Pearl, after shaping the bow, and before doing any tiller work, I trace its profile on my door to my work room. After I get it tillered to full draw, I trace its new shape over the first one. That tells me where the set is and how much. I measure the distance between the first profile and the last at the tips.
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Sleek, no one can deny your determination. It's all about having fun and your having lots no doubt.
RDs are a tough nut to crack for me. A challenging design to nail, one day....
Don, besides allowing a longer draw on a shorter bow, RDs have a buttery smooth draw throughout.
And they look slick
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Are those 4" tiles? That would give you maybe 2" of change from unbraced to braced? I was messing with lots of deflex and I started to wonder if there was a "law of diminishing returns" going on. I mean if you have to reflex the tips and limbs to make up for the draw weight that the deflex stole is there any gains to be made? I guess you get draw length on a short bow, anything else?
I am getting about three inches of tip movement at brace. Doing it that way, based on a typical 6 inch brace height, I am actually able to use half the stored energy that a 6 inch brace has. So even though string tension is lower I am able to get more energy from a low brace. This design works best with full contact recurves because as you draw back the bow gets longer and helps to negate the diminishing returns you correctly mention. They are still there but just reduced. Another thing is, because of the deflex, the string has a leverage advantage over the limb tips, this requires the limbs to be more massive to fight the leverage advantage. I feel with the more mass in the limbs, there is less set because you have more wood fighting the stress. I could be way off base there though but these short bows have some very thick limbs. I will post some dimensions later today to illustrate my point.
I will add with reduced string tension the bows are much quieter on release and with shorter limbs, tree stands and tight shooting quarters are much more doable. I want to make a compound bow sized self bow that is a viable hunting bow and standard yardage. I feel I am damn close to it.
Point is, when you build this bow you are instantly at a disadvantage on energy storage. Everything you do after is to reduce the effects of lower energy storage, and use the energy you have more efficiently. The recurves, wider limbs, reflexed limbs, anything you can do to increase string tension and reduce tip mass and keep stability. So far, it seems if its done right a very effective bow can be built. My arrows on all these short bows have more than enough penetration as demonstrated at OJAM with some of our fellow forum members.
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Get some reflex in those limbs and you'll regain your losses.
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But do you lose your gains? ;) One advantage that I forgot about is that they look really cool ;D
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yes it has a very beautiful line a full draw,, I like a straight bow too, they are all beautiful to me,, :)
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Just shot it. Probably the fastest bow i have made. Im amazed. I still need to make some adjustments but this bow is damn fast. Holy crap fast. Only one problem I cant take it to 28" anynmore. Lifted a splinter at the lower fade. Its from not following a ring across the handle. Thought i could get away with it. I was wrong. Seems ok at 26.
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-04/20160401_214706_zpsvqwlnsmf.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-04/20160401_214706_zpsvqwlnsmf.jpg.html)
These bows allow no errors in workmanship. Period.
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I think super glue in the splinter, rawhide and a sinew wrap will hold that down ok. I think first though i will heat treat the fade to stiffen it up some as they do work. Then i can get back ro shooting this bow in.
Unfortunately this will be tje last in the short bow serries for a while. Im taking a 6 month contract job in Charleston sc so my bow building time will be reduced greatly.
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Any heat treating is best done before you pull it to full draw. You cannot uncrush crushed wood.
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Agreed but i can still stiffen it up some.
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154 fps with 571 grain arrow pulling 65#@26. I am quite satisfied.
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How many months of shooting would it take to prove its a safe reliable bow?
All of them!
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Badger, hows these numbers hold up to your calculations?
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That looks pretty good for a short deflexed bow drawing 26". You can take deer with it no problem.
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Very impressive sleek. You obviously have some skills. That would be a fun bow to take in the woods.
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thanks for the chrono results, for sure enough to kill a deer,,congrats :)
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154 fps with 571 grain arrow pulling 65#@26. I am quite satisfied.
Too bad you didn't get to test it at 28".
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Too worried about that splinter. Next one I will be more careful.
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Congrats, Sleek! I've really enjoyed this one.
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Thanks folks for the compliments. I have a few things yet I am going to try design wise as soon as I can get the bends without lifting splinters. I think I can get more out of it speed wise. I had a few shots hit 157 but not enough to claim that speed.I would like to get consistent 160s then go from there. I think this design has it in it, I just need to find the parameters.
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20160617_183802_zpsyobc6ofh.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20160617_183802_zpsyobc6ofh.jpg.html)
Sure hate to waste a good bow.
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20160617_200330_zpsavzzl2ih.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20160617_200330_zpsavzzl2ih.jpg.html)
First layer bundled up and ready to apply.
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20160617_221249_zpsvibjxlrj.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20160617_221249_zpsvibjxlrj.jpg.html)
First layer
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20160617_221256_zpswt0t0ha8.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20160617_221256_zpswt0t0ha8.jpg.html)
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20160618_162953_zpswi1qo4zw.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20160618_162953_zpswi1qo4zw.jpg.html)
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20160617_221219_zpslv7kbvru.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20160617_221219_zpslv7kbvru.jpg.html)
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20160802_193830_zpsc8hibmud.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20160802_193830_zpsc8hibmud.jpg.html)
Second layer
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20160803_105234_zps3tobqibg.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20160803_105234_zps3tobqibg.jpg.html)
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20160803_105224_zps2v7cx08d.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20160803_105224_zps2v7cx08d.jpg.html)
Getting some of the deflex out to stress the sinew more and increase early draw weight. This bow after this corse of sinew should be good to go to 28" again. I hooe to find out in a month. I have only 1.5"of deflex in it now whete before I had 3. That should make a string tension difference. Should I go for 0 deflex and 0 reflex in the bow? Can osage hande that much compression?
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20160803_181515_zpszzrgelta.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20160803_181515_zpszzrgelta.jpg.html)
I like this profile. Hope I can get it to stay as the sinew cures.
And just an fyi. The ONLY reason this bow got sinew is the splinter that lifted from where the fade back was damaged when i put it on a form to deflex.
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Somehow missed this when you first posted it but that bow looks killer Kevin. I think it was begging for sinew.
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Looking good bud. I would leave it like you have it. But do something with that ugly handle. >:D
Patrick
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:'( why does nobody like my handle? :'( To me it feels like when you hold a slingsot, choked up on it.
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You should have reverse braced before applying the sinew.
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Oh..... well, live and learn. I thought you laid it down and it shrunk into pulling in a reflex. Next time.... thanks.
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At first making bows like these can take as much time planning as making seems like.Using tried and true techniques done by others.Then the next few will get a little easier.Adjusting things on the fly during construction can limit your options but do come in handy for knowledge on your next build.
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I will follow with interest.
Curious how you can manage the 28" draw.
Maybe a more wider curve in the limbs would distribute the stress on the belly a bit better, I mean not to go for a static recurce. But more working recurve.
Good luck!
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Tonight I lost patience and braced it. What a bear! 65#@22". Now its time to tiller this thing out back to 65@26, shoot it in some, then get some chrono numbers and pull it on back to 28 again. I sure hope it holds! Tillering these is an exercise in flinching.
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Got it to 65@26. Im worried i got the inner limb bending too much. Fd pic tomorrow.
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After unbrace, the profile was exactly what it was when i first made it before it took any set. I took half the deflex out when I sinewed it. It had 1.5 inches deflex after sinew, it has 3 now, which is what I built it with. So, the sinew did help. Because before sinew the bow had taken an inch of set. That's gone now.
Seeing it lay perfectly on ots original lines makes me think I got the tiller perfect. Pics will tell tomorrow.my tiller tree ( litterally a tree i loop the string on a branch and pull the bow down ) doeant allow a far away look see.
I shot it tonight. Id like to report ots super fast, but I dont think it seems any faster than before. I hope to chrono it next week. And shave some tip mass down as well.
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I suppose I could include the new brace pic.
(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20160818_011831_zpsc4lwrdpe.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20160818_011831_zpsc4lwrdpe.jpg.html)
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Nice, can't wait for full draw shots, not to mention chrono...
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Looks really cool! Highly deflexed shorties are a really neat way to get a long draw out of short wood.
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/Screenshot_20160818-161338_zpswfdkcwnh.png) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/Screenshot_20160818-161338_zpswfdkcwnh.png.html)
65#@26
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/Screenshot_20160818-161254_zpsjst6nlj7.png) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/Screenshot_20160818-161254_zpsjst6nlj7.png.html)
Annnnnd at 78@28.
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I am working on a fd chart now.
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.10@12
15@13
18@14
21@15
24@16
27@17
30@18
35@19
37@20
42@21
46@22
51@23
56@24
63@25
65@26
74@27
78@28
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Looking at your force draw curve, I can see exactly where your recurves are doing there thing. That last entry tells an ugly story however. At 27" stack is showing by jumping 9 lbs. Your entry at 28" would suggest that the belly is now thoroughly crushed. It should have been an even more drastic jump in weight. I'd almost be willing to bet that you're readings throughout the force draw curve will be significantly less than the first time you charted it. The last inch must of been a smidge too much. Josh
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You may be right gundoc, i dont know. My set up isnt the most reliable. I notice i could gane maybe 3 pounds of draw an inch then the next inch i would gain 6 then 3 again. I think perhaps an average of every two inches of draw should be looked at instead of every inch.
Also, that draw chart was made after my pics were taken and every inch i measured, i drew back down before going to the next inch. That way i knew the wood was being worked.
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Man I'm a lil jelly to tell you the truth.... I'll get there one day :laugh: hopefully!
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Wow! Now leave it the hell alone until you get it to a crono, lol, don't even look at it funny. Seriously though, that thing is pretty sweet man, good work!
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Wow, that's a scary bend at the handle, or maybe it's the angle.
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No Eddie, you see it right. The trick is on these bows, is to deflex the fades so to stress the limbs less.
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Looking at your force draw curve, I can see exactly where your recurves are doing there thing. That last entry tells an ugly story however. At 27" stack is showing by jumping 9 lbs. Your entry at 28" would suggest that the belly is now thoroughly crushed. It should have been an even more drastic jump in weight. I'd almost be willing to bet that you're readings throughout the force draw curve will be significantly less than the first time you charted it. The last inch must of been a smidge too much. Josh
I just ran through the draw with a scale again. Nothing has changed. I dont think the wood has broken down yet.
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20160819_152823_zpsrrmnekho.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20160819_152823_zpsrrmnekho.jpg.html)
12 yard group. Mix matched arrows.
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Wow! Now leave it the hell alone until you get it to a crono, lol, don't even look at it funny. Seriously though, that thing is pretty sweet man, good work!
Im sorry, but I dont think I can do that.
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how is the box stopping the arrows??
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There is another box inside with towels wrapped loosely around a pillow. It stops the arrows well and they never penetrate the soft arrow stop, and pull out with little force.
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wow thats a great idea,, Im gonna try that one
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awesome!!
...yeah
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I have an inability to leave well enough alone. I am soaking this bow in the bath for a day, then pulling off all the sinew, hopefully in a solid sheet. Then, taking the bow, clamping it down into a reflexed midlimb to outer tips, letting the bow dry, then gluing on the sinew as a single sheet, to dry into more reflex, hoping for 2 to 3 inches, measured from the back of handle to the nocks.
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Just got the sinew off. I was able to fillet it off like fish skin only harder.
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I've attached a graph of the force draw curve based on the data Sleek provided on the previous page, in case anyone wants to see it.
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Eric, I appreciate that. That bow had zero initial draw weight. Hoping to fix that.
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What was the brace height?
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Lol, knew you couldn't stop, you're an edge pusher for sure. Luckily you seem to be pretty damn good at it as evidenced by these self bows that are damn near horn bow specs, lol.
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What was the brace height?
I cant quite recal but 7 inches is a ballpark figure. Thats my usual.
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Lol, knew you couldn't stop, you're an edge pusher for sure. Luckily you seem to be pretty damn good at it as evidenced by these self bows that are damn near horn bow specs, lol.
Thanks. That is my goal.
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What is the life expectancy on this monstrous thing? I'm just waiting for you to post a picture of it in pieces lol. And man that handle is ugly
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Life expectancy? I dont expect anything!
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20160831_120246_zpsbclacakl.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20160831_120246_zpsbclacakl.jpg.html)
Here it is drying its sinew taking on its new shape.
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reminds me a bit of this 200+fps at 10gpp glass bow's shape
(http://i.imgur.com/vwj3M94.jpg)
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Seeing your force draw curve on an actual graph changes the perspective a bit. What I thought was stack is clearly just a slight flaw in your precision measuring system. ;) That's good. I'm wondering how the latest adjustment is going to affect the performance. I wouldn't think you will gain much in string tension, but I could be wrong. Josh
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/20160903_131306_zps0fbaadtz.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/20160903_131306_zps0fbaadtz.jpg.html)
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Loon, I certainly see a resemblance. I need to get mine reflexing earlier for that shape though, and I am still going through stages if experimentation before I reach althat and understand why what shapes work and dont.
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Seeing your force draw curve on an actual graph changes the perspective a bit. What I thought was stack is clearly just a slight flaw in your precision measuring system. ;) That's good. I'm wondering how the latest adjustment is going to affect the performance. I wouldn't think you will gain much in string tension, but I could be wrong. Josh
In this new profile, I am going for 2 inches of retained reflex. In the above pic it has 2 3/4" reflex. Sinew is still curing and shrinking, we will see what that does for me.
With the induced reflex, and I am going to tiller it down to 65@28 rather than 75@28, the belly should have fresh new wood for compreasion. We will see how it works out. I really am hoping for better early draw weight.
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I think, when I start tillering this back, I am going to get the tips to start bending first, then try anf move the tiller to the inner limbs. That way the inner limbs release their energy first, and the tips act like the flick of the wrist as a ball is pitched.
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Gnarly Kevin!
Keep pushin it buddy ;)
Got a skull out of the dirt with your name on it and it looks pretty good...except for the bullet hole in the forehead.
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I think, when I start tillering this back, I am going to get the tips to start bending first, then try anf move the tiller to the inner limbs. That way the inner limbs release their energy first, and the tips act like the flick of the wrist as a ball is pitched.
This seems like a tricky proposition. Which part will bend in order to achieve brace?
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reminds me a bit of this 200+fps at 10gpp glass bow's shape
(http://i.imgur.com/vwj3M94.jpg)
I am convinced this is the optimum design, maybe 30% less bending limb.
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So basically a Turkish bow....
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So basically a Turkish bow....
Pretty much but you can't do it with wood.
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Well then it can't be optimum. ;)
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Well, I said it can't be done with wood. It actually can if you are willing to make the limb wide enough. Like maybe 4". I might try it with some 1/4 sawn white oak and an osage board. I did an osage self bow similar a couple years ago but with less working limb. I went about 2 1/2" wide. I had exceptional performance to start but it rapidly broke down.
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So basically a Turkish bow....
Pretty much but you can't do it with wood.
Challenge accepted :D
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I think, when I start tillering this back, I am going to get the tips to start bending first, then try anf move the tiller to the inner limbs. That way the inner limbs release their energy first, and the tips act like the flick of the wrist as a ball is pitched.
This seems like a tricky proposition. Which part will bend in order to achieve brace?
Im thinking with the fades being deflexed only the outter third will need to bend.
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Without adjusting tiller I braced the bow. String tension is completely through the roof. I am moving, my scale and tree is packed away. This weekend I am going to a shoot in Missouri so I can give numbers there.
I just unbraced it and the tips are perfecly even with the back of the bow. I think everything I did was worth it.I have a set of arrows there waiting on me made by warpath for this bow too so, this will be fun :)
I did however get to take the bow to about 24 inches of draw and fire an arrow. This arrow was completely fine, and had been fired from this bow plently. I just shot the ground from my porch. It hit the ground with such force it split itself open along the grain line in 3 pieces. This bow is powerful.
Very.
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The tips when blaced, protrude higher than the belly of the bow( the string rest on the recurves with file grooves cut in ). I beliece I will be trying to make a string that splits open allowing the string to sit on the nock, split across the limb, half the sting on the right, half on the left, and join together at a sort of bridge/brush nock further towards the outter third of tje limb than at the start of the recurve.
This in my mind will allow the bow to increase in length as the string is drawn, and allow the recurves to really work and " flip the wrist " as the string slams home on the last part of the release.
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Gnarly Kevin!
Keep pushin it buddy ;)
Got a skull out of the dirt with your name on it and it looks pretty good...except for the bullet hole in the forehead.
Thanks buddy, I think this bow is turning out fine.
Id really like to meet you and have you give me that skull in person.
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Gnarly Kevin!
Keep pushin it buddy ;)
Got a skull out of the dirt with your name on it and it looks pretty good...except for the bullet hole in the forehead.
Thanks buddy, I think this bow is turning out fine.
Id really like to meet you and have you give me that head in person.
Sleek! Phrasing! >:D
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Gnarly Kevin!
Keep pushin it buddy ;)
Got a skull out of the dirt with your name on it and it looks pretty good...except for the bullet hole in the forehead.
Thanks buddy, I think this bow is turning out fine.
Id really like to meet you and have you give me that head in person.
Sleek! Phrasing! >:D
i spit my soda... soda came out my nose...
please please work on phrasing... rofl...
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Ahahahahaha
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Thanks buddy, I think this bow is turning out fine.
Id really like to meet you and have you give me that head in person.
??? Sailors... ::) >:D. I'm glad you got some improvement out of your effort. I was wondering if you had looked into Wichita for employment. My cousin worked at Boeing for a couple years and said it was good place to work. The only reason he didn't stay is because of the long commute and he didn't want to move. Josh
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That moment when you realize your to far down the rabbit hole to turn back but start to really question your decision making skills :o
Oh well too many skilled bowyers for me to leave :laugh:
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(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/facepalm_zpsfu8s3cu1.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/facepalm_zpsfu8s3cu1.jpg.html)
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reminds me a bit of this 200+fps at 10gpp glass bow's shape
(http://i.imgur.com/vwj3M94.jpg)
I am convinced this is the optimum design, maybe 30% less bending limb.
Does anyone know the length/width of this bow?
Sleek - I bet that piece of osage doesn't know what's hit it.....!!!! Get your self a piece of maple some horn and some sinew. Wood has it's limits you need more elastic material!
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It might be doable with bamboo, at least up to 50# or something -
https://www.facebook.com/Medicinebows/photos/?tab=album&album_id=642964949092712
fibergrass :D
Sorry, not sure if it's a "commercial link", remove it if it is and I'll stop posting such links
Also... the "strung length" of that glass bow is 45", with a 30" max draw, and bow mass 250 grams. It looks a bit longer than 45"...
(https://i.imgur.com/1tStBLu.jpg)
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Well, I got the bow shooting 174 fps with that 571 grain arrow with 65#@26". Im happy. Gonna doll her up and move on to the next bow.
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Thats good Sleek. Very good for a short bow.
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Thanks Steve.
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Curious question Steve, with a 320gn arrow, what performance could be expected for flight shooting?