Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: DC on February 11, 2016, 07:02:57 pm
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It's the set you have immediately after unstringing that matters, right? The fact that it recovers another 1' or so overnight is meaningless?
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I believe so because it is from that point in the limbs deformation that the work was being done, not the point of complete rest.
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I had thought that set was non-reversable, and string-follow is what recovers over night. I also thought set was caused by green wood, rushed tillering or bow design....
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I believe so because it is from that point in the limbs deformation that the work was being done, not the point of complete rest.
Set is the change every bow has between starting and filtered profile, and some of it is temporary and related to the added stress of shooting. String follow is when the tips of the limb follow the string past the axis of the grip when the bow is resting. All bows take some amount of set whether you see it or not, some wood cells are always damaged when wood is bent, but not all bows have string follow.
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Now that was a lesson!
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Answer is yes DC, that being said I still like it when the recover some after resting, good explanation huisme. :) People seem to have trouble knowing the difference in set and string follow. :)
Pappy
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Answer is yes DC, that being said I still like it when the recover some after resting, good explanation huisme. :) People seem to have trouble knowing the difference in set and string follow. :)
Pappy
People have a harder time understanding the reasoning for separating the two. ;)
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Set is a whole study of its own. If you could measure the set in the first split second you unbrace the bow it would be more than it is after 1 second. Some set recovers just split seconds behind the shot when the arrow leaves the bow and it is still braced. We call that hysterisis. The only way to measure true set is to run a long and tedious bunch of tests so most of us just refer to immediately unbraced profile.
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Set happens. :) Jawge
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Obviously some slight disagreement in the terms here.
My understanding is that set is the permanent fixed bend which all bows (and even steel springs) will suffer from.
The extra bit which is there after a days shooting, but recovers fairly quickly is string follow.... (or is it the other way round ;) >:D )
Anyhow... like Jawge says "set happens" .
An if I have a choice between set and a broken bow... I'll go for a bit of set every time!
If you think about the actual words ... "Set" implies permanent... like when cement sets...
Del
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Obviously some slight disagreement in the terms here.
My understanding is that set is the permanent fixed bend which all bows (and even steel springs) will suffer from.
The extra bit which is there after a days shooting, but recovers fairly quickly is string follow.... (or is it the other way round ;) >:D )
Anyhow... like Jawge says "set happens" .
An if I have a choice between set and a broken bow... I'll go for a bit of set every time!
If you think about the actual words ... "Set" implies permanent... like when cement sets...
Del
Here come "the definers" in 3,2,1 ::)
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Its set that stays, you gotta brace your bows higher and don't coddle them.
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you gotta brace your bows higher and don't coddle them.
Now you dragged me in. Explain your statement, if you would.
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>:D
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Your explanation, please.
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I have to agree with what I think he's getting at, I don't brace a shorter bow lower just because it's short, if it can't handle a normal brace it needs to not go to its new owner and I start another bow.
That being said I currently have a 52" recurve with a 7" riser braced to 6.5" and pulling 25" so my idea of what's short is a little off beat. I'll probably post this bow and a little batty thing I've been working for ages...
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Pearlie he had something about higher braces than normal and overdrawing the bow, then it was deleted.
That said, why would u intentionally add set to a bow with an unnecessary brace and overdrawing? Makes no sense to me. In fact, the less set u induce with tillering, bracing, and breaking in, the better your bow will perform because it will lose less weight (btw higher brace=less transfer of energy) For my personal bows, i do the lowest brace i can get away with (with other factors in consideration), and never overdraw it. Bows for other ppl, well there i just tiller in an extra inch just in case (if they are inexperienced), but theres no point in overstressing it. If they pull a stupid and over draw or whatever, well I don't take responsibility for that..having forewarned them of course.
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Ok here's my version.....lol.When I unbrace a bow after shooting a few hours or so and I take an immediate[like within a half a minute or sooner] check against something flat I call that soft set.I judge my tillering by how much soft set a bow takes.If not much good so be it.The limbs to me are'nt being stressed much and my design for that type of wood worked.
Two hours later I measure again and remember what I started with before tillering and the difference I call hard set or permanent set.Some bows can gain a minor tweak overnight but not much.
To me it's a check on my tillering skills.
Like I've heard said the bow has to bow to the string.Can't avoid it.
I brace a bow as low as I can usually around 7" to back of handle or depending how deep your handle is about 5 and 5/8" to belly of handle to the point that the arrow is not on the string while the shaft is beginning to paradox.I'll get the most I can from that brace height to my arrow.Works for me.
No point in over bracing because of wrist slap or something like that.If your wrist gets slapped there s something wrong with the release.In fact I shoot lots of times with no arm bracer at all.It's on there in case I hiccup during release really....lol.
Maybe it's a weird way to understand[but I don't think so] it but so be it.
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I overbrace because I've had a lot of archers disregard my recommended 5.5-6.5" brace and jump straight to 8" and over stress their bow. Everyone's brace height is more right than everyone else's brace height so might as well get it over with in the shop.
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You do what pleases you.
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over bracing a bow is a bad idea,, its like overdrawing a bow several inches,,
it only strains the bow more than necessary
and also reduces the cast of the bow at the same time
and increases " set " that that is unnecessary
bracing a bow to a lower height in not coddling ,,,overdrawing a bow damages the bow,,, so does overbraceing,, whats the point,, :)
no need to damage a bow that the bow maker spent many hours getting just right,,
that just my opinion,, :)
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I agree with your opinion and most of my recipients are of the same mind but I have to be ready for those few who know more about their bows than the guy who made them ;) Besides, I never ship a bow with excessive set which means I've built them just tough enough to take it so far. Plan for the worst hope for the best.
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so I missed something, I assume?
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"brace the bows higher and don't coddle them." is what I said, Pat B quoted me that my brace was to low. My brace was only 5 - 5 1/2" now its more like 6 1/4 - 6 1/2" . And when shooting the bow pull beyond your length if it breaks then build another. Hopefully that explains my method of madness. I have one bow where it relaxes after un bracing.
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I guess I still dont understand all this? Brace height is all about tuning a bow, how does coddling come into play based on a bow tuned at, say 5 1/2"? Teach me.
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bracing a bow to a lower height in not coddling ,,,
I did not say coddling had anything to do with bracing.
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PD
do you tune your bow to the arrows, or build your arrows to suit the bow?
thanks
willie
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I tune the bow to the arrow by adjusting brace height, nock height and tip weight.
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I do as Pearl does but I try to start off with the spine pretty close on the arrow.
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I do whatever I need to do, to get the bow to shoot well(which is usually not much),,when someone is having an issue with spine etc, sometimes the bow is not designed well, the string is laying on the wrong side of the handle etc etc, if the bow is built well,, it will shoot a wide range of spine,, and not be so sensitive to brace either,, shooting a fairly low brace with ease,,and shooting longer or shorter arrows as well,,forgiving
if the arrow pass is too wide,, or release is bad, then raising the brace can compensate for alot of issues,,,but at risk of compromising the life of the bow,,or the performance,,
shoot a bow at 5 inches though the chrono,, see how she does,, now brace it up to 8 inches and shoot 100 arrows,, go back the chrono and you will see why a high brace is over rated to say the least,,make the bow well and you won't have to brace it high,,, :)
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I pretty much know what spine the bow will shoot when I take it down from the rope and pulley but I have arrows of different spines to try.
Brace height is around 7 inches to the back of the bow.
The lowest at which the bow shoots well.
What does "well" mean?
The arrow must be away silently with a gentle push and all I see is the back of the fletching.
Jawge
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Back to this Brace issue. I measured my Fistmele and its about 6 1/4" to 6 1/2" and this seems to get me good cast and poundage from the bow.