Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Flintknapping => Topic started by: JackCrafty on June 12, 2015, 01:01:09 pm

Title: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: JackCrafty on June 12, 2015, 01:01:09 pm
Got some floor tile videos in the works.  The first one is up...  :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byKXPn1BDzI

Title: Re: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: TRACY on June 12, 2015, 02:52:48 pm
Your wife's going to be mad when she sees missing tiles in the house Patrick >:D


Tracy
Title: Re: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: Zuma on June 12, 2015, 04:31:19 pm
Sweet
How many broken tiles you want.
Try leaving the Made In Italy stamp on them. >:D
Zuma
Title: Re: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: vinemaplebows on June 12, 2015, 07:30:38 pm
Got some floor tile videos in the works.  The first one is up...  :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byKXPn1BDzI

Didn't you just tell someone in PA mag tile was not good material? Porcelain is the best in my opinion.
Title: Re: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: JackCrafty on June 12, 2015, 08:30:31 pm
Didn't you just tell someone in PA mag tile was not good material? Porcelain is the best in my opinion.

Yep, I don't recommend it.  But it's one of only a few options for a lot of people.  And it's cheap.  High quality porcelain, in large quantities, is difficult to find in my experience.

And besides, that's why the vid is in the "Rock Challenge" video series.  If I thought it was good, I would have put it in a "Really Cool Materials" video series.   >:D
Title: Re: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: JackCrafty on June 12, 2015, 08:34:29 pm
Tracy, that's funny.  But I have plenty of cut-offs.  I think she gets mad enough that I saved a pile of them...

Zuma, see comment above.   ;)  (and I didn't notice the "Made in Italy" stamp...  that's a good idea)
Title: Re: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: mullet on June 13, 2015, 07:57:12 pm
If you go to HD and look for the quality "Made in Italy" tile, you will be real surprised how easy it pressure flakes. :). And, it's cheap.
Title: Re: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: JackCrafty on June 13, 2015, 08:51:49 pm
I'll look for it.... 
Title: Re: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: vinemaplebows on June 14, 2015, 12:59:45 am
Didn't you just tell someone in PA mag tile was not good material? Porcelain is the best in my opinion.

Yep, I don't recommend it.  But it's one of only a few options for a lot of people.  And it's cheap.  High quality porcelain, in large quantities, is difficult to find in my experience.

And besides, that's why the vid is in the "Rock Challenge" video series.  If I thought it was good, I would have put it in a "Really Cool Materials" video series.   >:D

I think you are not understanding......there are porcelain tiles, clay tiles, and ceramic tiles. They are not the same in quality, and even porcelain tile varies in quality. I like the darker colored porcelain tile as it tends to flake much better, and like Eddie said Italian porcelain tile (some) is very good flaking material. I have found tile that flakes nice, yet the tile was very thin and only allowed for small points.... :-\ :-\
Title: Re: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: JackCrafty on June 14, 2015, 02:08:30 am
Ok, it looks like some of you guys are tile connoisseurs.   ;)  Below is an explanation of what I know so far.  I'm posting it here for those who are new to all this.  (you can cover eyes and plug your ears now   :P)

In general, tile used for floors is more dense and finer-grained than wall tile.  That's why I used the term "floor tile" in the videos even though I'm technically using "porcelain tile" (we ordered an interior tile that absorbs very little water).

Ceramic or porcelain tile is practically identical and differs only in name when you are talking about interior tiles.  Exterior tiles are made to be impervious to water, but you have to specify it.  As for how it knaps, I need to try some but I'm willing to bet there's not much difference.

So far, all the floor tile I've knapped is basically the same.  There are slight differences in texture but it's all brittle and not easy to run flakes on.  There appears to be some tiles that approach the quality of glass, and I have to admit that I haven't knapped the good stuff that some of you guys seem to have found...

Anyways, I've received many questions about tile from all over the place.  I'm talking to a guy in Russia right now.  Who knows how tile is graded over there?  But I won't confuse the issue by telling him to look for "porcelain".

So that's my take on it.  Looks like this can become a very good topic for discussion and I welcome anyone who want to add their experiences  (especially those who know more about this than I do).
Title: Re: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: vinemaplebows on June 14, 2015, 12:58:31 pm
Jack,

              T o say tile is tile, is like saying rock is rock...you should do more research....IMO
Title: Re: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: JackCrafty on June 14, 2015, 02:03:28 pm
Yes, I should.  Sounds like fun (I get to stroll the isles of my favorite place...).
Title: Re: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: jeffp51 on June 15, 2015, 12:24:31 pm
I would like to try some tile if anyone has more advice on the good stuff. . .how do I tell what will pressure flake well?
Title: Re: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: JackCrafty on June 15, 2015, 09:37:41 pm
Jeff,

Since no one has answered so far (it's still early, I know) I'll give it a shot.  I went out and bought a bunch of ceramic and porcelain tile right after my last post and knapped it.  (I went to Home Depot)  The "best" seems to be porcelain floor tile and bullnose trim that actually has the words "PREMIUM PORCELAIN" imprinted on the back.  Here are my results so far in order of flake quality (from best to worst):

Premium Porcelain bullnose trim (dark grey)
Premium Porcelain floor (dark gray)
Ceramic bullnose trim (dark red)
Porcelain floor (tan)
Ceramic floor (dark red)
Ceramic wall (dark red)
Porcelain floor (dark red)

Imitation Saltillo Tile (terra cotta)  Note: grey on the inside and knaps horribly.
Ceramic wall tile (white) Note:  this stuff is worse than sink/toilet ceramic.

Bullnose trim is thinner than the floor tile, and comes in smaller pieces, but seems to be the best quality.   And the color in parenthesis is the actual color of the inside/back of the tile, not the color of the hard surface.

I haven't tried authentic clay tile, or clay pots (for potting plants) but I will soon.  I probably won't try Travertine.
Title: Re: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: vinemaplebows on June 15, 2015, 10:27:39 pm
Jeff,

Since no one has answered so far (it's still early, I know) I'll give it a shot.  I went out and bought a bunch of ceramic and porcelain tile right after my last post and knapped it.  (I went to Home Depot)  The "best" seems to be porcelain floor tile and bullnose trim that actually has the words "PREMIUM PORCELAIN" imprinted on the back.  Here are my results so far in order of flake quality (from best to worst):

Premium Porcelain bullnose trim (dark grey)
Premium Porcelain floor (dark gray)
Ceramic bullnose trim (dark red)
Porcelain floor (tan)
Ceramic floor (dark red)
Ceramic wall (dark red)
Porcelain floor (dark red)

Imitation Saltillo Tile (terra cotta)  Note: grey on the inside and knaps horribly.
Ceramic wall tile (white) Note:  this stuff is worse than sink/toilet ceramic.

Bullnose trim is thinner than the floor tile, and comes in smaller pieces, but seems to be the best quality.   And the color in parenthesis is the actual color of the inside/back of the tile, not the color of the hard surface.

I haven't tried authentic clay tile, or clay pots (for potting plants) but I will soon.  I probably won't try Travertine.

Yep, that's about right......but, new tile comes in now and then check it for quality...you never know! :)
Title: Re: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: JackCrafty on June 15, 2015, 10:29:12 pm
On a scale of 0-10 (with 10 being easiest to knap), here is where I place high-grade floor tile compared to other materials:

10  High-grade Heat-treated

9    Glass/Obsidian

8    True Flint and Highest-grade Cherts

7    High-grade Chert and Medium-grade Heat-treated

6    Medium-grade Chert

5    High-grade Porcelain and Ceramic  (includes high-grade floor tile)

4    Low-grade Heat-treated

3    Low-grade Chert

2    High-grade Quartzite and Rhyolite

1    Low-grade Quartzite and Rhyolite

0    Low-grade Ceramics, Natural Cortex


I usually don't recommend anything lower than a 7 for beginners and for those who want to work on advanced flaking techniques.

Note:  This scale has been updated on this thread:   http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,52976.0/topicseen.html
Title: Re: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: JackCrafty on June 15, 2015, 11:08:21 pm
Thanks for the input Brian!  What do you think of the knappability scale?
Title: Re: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: jeffp51 on June 16, 2015, 02:57:06 pm
also thanks.  I can't wait to try it.  I am flying home from Germany tomorrow.
Title: Re: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: JackCrafty on June 16, 2015, 08:21:06 pm
Here's a vid I just posted on tile from Home Depot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz1s4XwY1Dw&feature=gp-n-y&google_comment_id=z125y1o50xvxfvjzb04cdnerfquysdqjgzw0k
Title: Re: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: vinemaplebows on June 16, 2015, 09:15:43 pm
Thanks for the input Brian!  What do you think of the knappability scale?

Yes, that is a fair grading system. There is plenty of great materials that far outweigh the floor tiles, but on cheap easy to obtain for most people other than glass....tile is a good practice material, and with your knapping videos that show a step by step....hopefully we will see some success.

VMB
Title: Re: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: mullet on June 16, 2015, 10:11:40 pm
Looks good, Patrick.
Title: Re: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: JacksonCash on June 17, 2015, 09:27:33 pm
All I know is that the linoleum stick on tile the old owners left in my house doesn't knap for beans.
Title: Re: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: JackCrafty on June 17, 2015, 11:59:33 pm
 ;D
Title: Re: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: Chippintuff on June 18, 2015, 12:37:38 am
Buy a few small samples. It should be cheap. Even if you had to buy a few square feet, it would still be cheaper per point than most stone. If you have not knapped any slab material, it would be good to study a tutorial or watch a few videos on how to tackle it. Experiment. I have knapped a few pieces of floor tile, and it was fun to work and made nice points. I never knew what specific type it was, because I dug it up in the yard. The finish looked a lot like Patrick's, no gloss, and the flakes did not travel as well as good stone or glass, but it was still good stuff to work.

WA
Title: Re: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: Zuma on June 18, 2015, 10:06:24 am
Sometimes you can get the (broken in shipment) and left
 over cut pieces given to you for free.
Look for the tile cutting saw at Lowes or Home Depot.
If there is a lot of scrap, ask the associate from the tile area
for some.
Usually they feature an inexpensive tile at the front of the
tile section. Many boxes with broken tile.
Also get to know some installers. They are often shopping in
 the tile area. They like to get rid of their scrap and have tile
from different sources.
Zuma
Title: Re: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: JackCrafty on June 18, 2015, 10:23:04 am
Excellent advice Chip and Zuma.   :)
Title: Re: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: Chippintuff on June 18, 2015, 12:03:49 pm
With almost all tile, there is no need for a saw. Buy a tile cutter for $20.00 on the internet or at Lowe's or Home Depot. It is fast and works very well. It's just a supped up glass cutter. I have been using one to shape slabs that I cut from flint/chert.

WA
Title: Re: Knapping Floor Tile
Post by: JackCrafty on June 18, 2015, 12:27:25 pm
I need to get one of those.  Much more accurate than a hammer, I imagine.   ::)