Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Jax666 on October 14, 2014, 07:17:03 am
-
Are kit bows a good deal for a first attempt? I am still looking for a good source of ERC. It grows locally, but I am too old to wait for a tree to get big enough and then dry.
-
The advantage in ordering a kit bow is that the belly lam is already chosen and cut for you. The gluing together of core to handle, or core to handle to backing strip is the main obstacle. From there just tiller it out and finish it. There are a couple good suppliers if you check around. I believe Mike Yancy with Pine Hollow Longbows used to sell a cedar core kit. IMO a bow kit will introduce you to the basics and yield a shootable bow.
-
If you mean kit as in a laminate bow then no IMHO...saplings and proper chosen grain boards are best to learn on.
If your a cheap goat like me your best option is to go cut some whitewood saplings and learn on them for free..instead of payin money for materials that you'll possibly ruin in the end..and even if ya r successful it'll still be far from what it should be...99% of anyone trying there hand at bowmaking takes many tries,trials,and successful bows to be able to make a great bow....do your best but don't expect your firsts to be all that you hope it to be...good luck and don't give up ;)
PS..a sapling (or any fresh green cut wood)can be flinging arras in a few weeks via quick dry method
-
I started by making board bows. Materials are cheap, already dry and good to go as soon as you get them home. There are great build alongs and resources to guide you through a board bow build. IMO it's a good way to learn and the feeling of accomplishment when you have a successful bow in hand is hard to beat. Look for "Jawge" on here - anything he says about boards I'd believe to be gospel!
-
I started by making board bows. Materials are cheap, already dry and good to go as soon as you get them home. There are great build alongs and resources to guide you through a board bow build. IMO it's a good way to learn and the feeling of accomplishment when you have a successful bow in hand is hard to beat. Look for "Jawge" on here - anything he says about boards I'd believe to be gospel!
I was looking at boards at Menard's today and could not find any with a nice grain. I looked at both oak and maple.
-
Cheap backing.... like paper bags, drywall tape, either kind will work! It will increase your unusable too usable within reason. :) Good grain is the best though!
VMB
-
Cheap backing.... like paper bags, drywall tape, either kind will work! It will increase your unusable too usable within reason. :) Good grain is the best though!
What about rawhide? Not as cheap, but available locally from either Tandy or a saddle maker.
VMB
-
Leather, rawhide or linen all help. Can be attached with Titebond II or III.
-
Rawhide could be obtained from a rawhide dog bone - for 3 -6$, more than enough to back a bow. Try to get one that doesn't look superthick, and looks to not have a lot ofholes.
-
Cheap backing.... like paper bags, drywall tape, either kind will work! It will increase your unusable too usable within reason. :) Good grain is the best though!
VMB
Seems like a paper bag wouldn't help much when it comes to holding a splinter down
-
Cheap backing.... like paper bags, drywall tape, either kind will work! It will increase your unusable too usable within reason. :) Good grain is the best though!
VMB
Seems like a paper bag wouldn't help much when it comes to holding a splinter down
And how do you come to that conclusion... ???
-
I started by making board bows. Materials are cheap, already dry and good to go as soon as you get them home. There are great build alongs and resources to guide you through a board bow build. IMO it's a good way to learn and the feeling of accomplishment when you have a successful bow in hand is hard to beat. Look for "Jawge" on here - anything he says about boards I'd believe to be gospel!
I was looking at boards at Menard's today and could not find any with a nice grain. I looked at both oak and maple.
Don't forget hickory! Menards carries hickory! As far as backings, linen was easier to work with for me than rawhide.
-
I backed my first board with material from a a pair of camo pants I got at Goodwill. Wasn't pretty but it was cheap and it worked. Linen sure looks better though.
-
A paper bag isn't going to offer much protection...try sticking your finger through one >:D
Rawhide is one of the best backing if your grain is dodgy. Easy to apply once you've got the hang of it too.
Unless you get a very straight grained board back it.
-
I backed my first board with material from a a pair of camo pants I got at Goodwill. Wasn't pretty but it was cheap and it worked. Linen sure looks better though.
What about blue jeans?
-
Rawhide could be obtained from a rawhide dog bone - for 3 -6$, more than enough to back a bow. Try to get one that doesn't look superthick, and looks to not have a lot ofholes.
would a dog bone be long enough?
-
A paper bag isn't going to offer much protection...try sticking your finger through one >:D
Rawhide is one of the best backing if your grain is dodgy. Easy to apply once you've got the hang of it too.
Unless you get a very straight grained board back it.
is there a trick to applying raw hide?Do you wet it first?
-
There are probably several different methods to apply rawhide. In the past I've let it sit in warm water while preparing the wood. This allows it to soften up and expand some. Meanwhile I'll apply a generous amount of Titebond II and let it begin to set up some. Next, remove the rawhide from the water, blot it dry with a towel, stretch it out a bit, then carefully position it on the wood. I like to wrap it at the handle first, then pull it fairly snug toward the tips, and wrap them next, then wrap the rest of the limb. You don't want to wrap to tightly because it will leave indentions in the leather. Also, You'll have to remove some of the wrappings after several hours in order to allow the air to completely dry everything. The drying will likely take a couple days.
-
I backed my first board with material from a a pair of camo pants I got at Goodwill. Wasn't pretty but it was cheap and it worked. Linen sure looks better though.
What about blue jeans?
I've heard of guys doing that but I suspect you would want thin material rather than very heavy denim.
-
I get the biggest dogbone I can find (not necessarily the thickest) and you end up splicing two strips
together at the handle.
-
You said you were at Menards. They have dog bones that are huge. Like 2.5 feet long. That's where I get my rawhide from. There is enough to back a couple bows in one bone. Check out boarrior bows on YouTube he does a dog bone backing demo with a bone just like I'm talking about. Patrick
-
Now all I need is a board.
-
If you mean kit as in a laminate bow then no IMHO...saplings and proper chosen grain boards are best to learn on.
If your a cheap goat like me your best option is to go cut some whitewood saplings and learn on them for free..instead of payin money for materials that you'll possibly ruin in the end..and even if ya r successful it'll still be far from what it should be...99% of anyone trying there hand at bowmaking takes many tries,trials,and successful bows to be able to make a great bow....do your best but don't expect your firsts to be all that you hope it to be...good luck and don't give up ;)
PS..a sapling (or any fresh green cut wood)can be flinging arras in a few weeks via quick dry method
Saplings? How big? I have some wild cherry that needs cut and a pear tree. Quick dry? I will have to look into this.
-
Saturate a brown paper bag with TBIII, let it dry completely and then try to put your finger through it. ::)
-
Cherry might not make the best sapling bow. Not that cherry won't make a really fine bow, but you might want a wider back than most saplings will provide. Although, with some rawhide or a pristine design and tiller you might have a screamer. It would scare me though. An elm, hickory, dogwood, hackberry (poor person's elm)... Something like that would make a fine sapling bow. The board route is probably the simplest way to get a decent bow though, and is a fine way to learn tillering without too many curveballs.
Now, about these hickory boards at Menards... We don't have a Menards around here, so I'm relegated to red oak for my board bows (although they do work fine). There is a Menards back up in Kansas though, so I'll have to add that to my list of things to check on my next trip back up to Manhappiness. Thanks for the tip!
-
Rawhide could be obtained from a rawhide dog bone - for 3 -6$, more than enough to back a bow. Try to get one that doesn't look superthick, and looks to not have a lot ofholes.
would a dog bone be long enough?
I have used dog bone for string knocks and a handle wrap. It is very THICK. And once you soak one you more than likely wont give your dog another one. There is a bunch of rawhide in one. Gives me a gut ache just thinking about eating all that! I am sure if you soaked it, stretched it out flat, let it dry and sand about half of the thickness off it could be used. But it would be a lot of work. My opinion is that it would be more cost effective to just buy a big piece of thinner stuff.
-
Rawhide could be obtained from a rawhide dog bone - for 3 -6$, more than enough to back a bow. Try to get one that doesn't look superthick, and looks to not have a lot ofholes.
would a dog bone be long enough?
I have used dog bone for string knocks and a handle wrap. It is very THICK. And once you soak one you more than likely wont give your dog another one. There is a bunch of rawhide in one. Gives me a gut ache just thinking about eating all that! I am sure if you soaked it, stretched it out flat, let it dry and sand about half of the thickness off it could be used. But it would be a lot of work. My opinion is that it would be more cost effective to just buy a big piece of thinner stuff.
If I can find raw hide at a saddle shop or Tandy locally that's great, but with raw hid the shipping would not be outrageous so if I did order through the mail I would feel better than ordering wood. How thick should the rawhide be?
-
Deer or goat are the best, thin and strong.
-
Get the stuff for drum heads if you order it, if you have any trade goods post for some on the tradeing post
-
I backed one with drywall tape and its still goin strong. I know there are sites that sell kits. 3rivers for example
-
I see nothing wrong with a kit bow, if you are married to the idea of ERC. If you look hard enough, though, you can find ERC boards used for lining closets, or espceiallyI have seen 1.25" across hanger rods for closets made from ERC. Grain could be an issue, but the rods seem to have been selected for grain, since ya gotta hand weight on them.
-
Deer or goat are the best, thin and strong.
If I could make friends with a deer hunter. The deer skin I found online cost as much as a bow. Unless I could trade the extra for something.
-
Cherry might not make the best sapling bow. Not that cherry won't make a really fine bow, but you might want a wider back than most saplings will provide. Although, with some rawhide or a pristine design and tiller you might have a screamer. It would scare me though. An elm, hickory, dogwood, hackberry (poor person's elm)... Something like that would make a fine sapling bow. The board route is probably the simplest way to get a decent bow though, and is a fine way to learn tillering without too many curveballs.
Now, about these hickory boards at Menards... We don't have a Menards around here, so I'm relegated to red oak for my board bows (although they do work fine). There is a Menards back up in Kansas though, so I'll have to add that to my list of things to check on my next trip back up to Manhappiness. Thanks for the tip!
If someone live close I might have a wild cherry and a couple pears that would make a stave or two.
-
Hophornbeam makes a fine sapling bow. I've made a bunch of sapling and branch bows from HHB and they're hard to beat. If you live in Northeastern United States or Eastern Canada you shouldn't have much trouble finding it. It doesn't grow everywhere, but if you spend some time in the woods you'll run across a few.
-
All I have that needs to be cut is pear, wild cherry, soft maple, mulberry, and some stuff that has really rough bark and little red berries. It is pretty hard and stingy.
-
Pear is tricky. It is hard and dense, and beautiful, but the grain is weird, almost flaky.
Any mulberry is first rate bow wood, in my book. If you can get a branch or sapling of white mulberry at least 3" across, or a slightly bigger log or red mulberry, that is good stuff. Red likes to be taken down to a ring, it seems, while white can be treated like good quality whitewoods.
-
Pear is tricky. It is hard and dense, and beautiful, but the grain is weird, almost flaky.
Any mulberry is first rate bow wood, in my book. If you can get a branch or sapling of white mulberry at least 3" across, or a slightly bigger log or red mulberry, that is good stuff. Red likes to be taken down to a ring, it seems, while white can be treated like good quality whitewoods.
What is white wood? The heart wood on my mulberry looks kind of like osage. I never head of white mulberry.
-
The white wood is the sap wood section. Patrick
-
... and some stuff that has really rough bark and little red berries. It is pretty hard and stingy.
Look up dogwood on Google, see if that's what your talking about above. I believe that dogwood will make a good bow if you can find a strait enough piece.
-
The hickory at Menard's had horrible grain I found a red oak that did not look too bad,but it was warped and twisted.