Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Pat B. on June 30, 2014, 04:29:04 pm

Title: Adding length
Post by: Pat B. on June 30, 2014, 04:29:04 pm
The osage shorty thread made me wonder -------------

If you use glued on tip overlays of horn or perhaps another hard wood could you add a bit of length to nock to nock length by cutting your string grooves a bit beyond the osage stave?  In other words, cutting your string grooves out on the overlays rather than in the stave itself.. Wonder if they'd hang on and if so would you still use the super glue as the adhesive of choice ? Maybe a 1/2'' on either end ??
Not worth the risk ?
Title: Re: Adding length
Post by: BOWMAN53 on June 30, 2014, 04:32:48 pm
id think youd wanna go with the best wood glue you can get, with perfect gluelines.
Title: Re: Adding length
Post by: BOWMAN53 on June 30, 2014, 04:34:00 pm
not something id wanna shoot though, if that overlay pops off its coming straight for your face.
Title: Re: Adding length
Post by: Weylin on June 30, 2014, 04:34:13 pm
I'd vote for not worth the risk.
Title: Re: Adding length
Post by: BOWMAN53 on June 30, 2014, 04:34:56 pm
I'd vote for not worth the risk.


+100
Title: Re: Adding length
Post by: huisme on June 30, 2014, 04:36:15 pm
I wouldn't even string it up if the bow was over twenty pounds ???
Title: Re: Adding length
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on June 30, 2014, 04:36:58 pm
That's how I do most of mine, have a peek at yours. I cut the grooves in right where the core ends. It allows me to make a 66" ntn bow with a 66" stave. Ive had ONE overlay issue ever. I used the wrong wood and it exploded, no other failures of any type.
Title: Re: Adding length
Post by: Pat B. on June 30, 2014, 04:52:50 pm
But don't go beyond what you've described, Chris ?
Title: Re: Adding length
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on June 30, 2014, 04:57:32 pm
I don't suggest cutting the groove in beyond the end of the bow, no.  Consider the forces at work with an overlay and it will make more sense as to why you can get away with it. Unless its too short and pulled too far the string is never pulling on a 90, its always pulling down and in on a healthy bow.
Title: Re: Adding length
Post by: bubby on June 30, 2014, 05:02:31 pm
I do it quite a bit, altogether usually starts out about flush with the ends, if you make the overlays 6" long you'll have no problems, but I glue those longer overlays on with tb3 I can post a few pic,s when I get home
Title: Re: Adding length
Post by: Badger on June 30, 2014, 05:14:29 pm
  I go along with Pearly, just not that much leverage involved even at 1/4" past the stave. Doing them just past flush I don't consider much of an issue at all.
Title: Re: Adding length
Post by: Pat B. on June 30, 2014, 05:42:30 pm
I would think that even if the glue joint on an overlay was only 1 1/2" that you could get away with string grooves a bit beyond flush...

Thanks for the input..

And I'd like to see any pix if possible ---- just to see what is being done..

I've seen Chris's work up close and personal and it is impecable!
Title: Re: Adding length
Post by: DarkSoul on June 30, 2014, 06:52:10 pm
This bow (http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/42217/New-Mollegabet-Hybrid-bow-Nearly-done-new-pics-added?page=1) has been an inspiration for me for a long time. Whenever I come across a suitable stave, I will try something similar.

(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj168/shellshock187/Molly%20type%20flight%20bows/toplever.jpg)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj168/shellshock187/Molly%20type%20flight%20bows/SAM_0385.jpg)

It allows you to splice in tips, which can result in a bow of unlimited length.
Title: Re: Adding length
Post by: PatM on June 30, 2014, 06:56:39 pm
The extended stave via siyah is the best trick you can do. I make them all the time. I remember when we walked Bert through the splicing process with the above bow.
 Here's a couple of four foot Elm staves extended out a foot or so.
 (http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp78/pat_05/CIMG3955.jpg)
Title: Re: Adding length
Post by: bubby on June 30, 2014, 08:21:45 pm
(http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt320/bubncheryl/Picture011.jpg) (http://s623.photobucket.com/user/bubncheryl/media/Picture011.jpg.html)
is this what you were thinking, I've gone several inches past with no problems, this was just an easy pic to find
Title: Re: Adding length
Post by: Weylin on June 30, 2014, 08:28:41 pm
that looks trustworthy to me, Bubby. Clearly the key is drastically extending the glue surface area. Looks pretty cool too.  8)
Title: Re: Adding length
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on June 30, 2014, 08:53:01 pm
Here are a few in varying distances from the tip.
Title: Re: Adding length
Post by: PatM on June 30, 2014, 09:08:43 pm
While siyahs are usually v-spliced in a simple lap splice  like the  above overlays  will support a considerable extension if glued and wrapped.
 All the cheap horsebows out there have a lap  splice for the siyah.
 Tim Baker actually claims that extensions will hold up if not wrapped. There is even a picture in one of the  TBB showing this.
Title: Re: Adding length
Post by: bubby on July 01, 2014, 12:31:09 am
Thanks weylin, it's very trustworthy, I've run them several more inches with no problems
Title: Re: Adding length
Post by: Pat B. on July 01, 2014, 10:09:31 am
Thanks for the pictures, they all look great and provide inspiration !
Title: Re: Adding length
Post by: Del the cat on July 01, 2014, 10:14:01 am
The extended stave via siyah is the best trick you can do. I make them all the time. I remember when we walked Bert through the splicing process with the above bow.
 Here's a couple of four foot Elm staves extended out a foot or so.
 (http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp78/pat_05/CIMG3955.jpg)
Oh, man, they are pretty bows, I like the subtlety... not over done. Clean lines.
Splicing on a couple of extra inches is no prob when done like that...
Del
Title: Re: Adding length
Post by: autologus on July 01, 2014, 11:07:21 am
This bow (http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/42217/New-Mollegabet-Hybrid-bow-Nearly-done-new-pics-added?page=1) has been an inspiration for me for a long time. Whenever I come across a suitable stave, I will try something similar.

(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj168/shellshock187/Molly%20type%20flight%20bows/toplever.jpg)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj168/shellshock187/Molly%20type%20flight%20bows/SAM_0385.jpg)

It allows you to splice in tips, which can result in a bow of unlimited length.

Those look like they are spliced into quarter/rift sawn Ash is that correct?

Grady
Title: Re: Adding length
Post by: nakedfeet on July 01, 2014, 02:03:18 pm
This thread is a great example of people originally urging caution, and to follow "conventional wisdom" -- and then several examples popping up that show that the conventional wisdom doesn't necessarily capture the whole picture.

It's so awesome to me that even though this craft is thousands of years old, we're still finding out new things about it.

(For what it's worth, when I first read it my first thought was spliced siyahs as well. And those have been around for a long time. So in this case it's just kind of re-discovering what the ancients already knew.)
Title: Re: Adding length
Post by: Pappy on July 03, 2014, 09:22:14 am
Nice tips,It has never been the issue of the string breaking them off to me,Like has been said not that much pressure on them anyway,it is hitting them on something when they are passed the bow wood that will cause the problem,the leverage you get when they are beyond is high and since I am pretty rough on stuff I don't go passed the bow wood with my tips. But they sure are pretty I will admit.  ;) :) :)
  Pappy
Title: Re: Adding length
Post by: bubbles on July 03, 2014, 10:18:04 am
If done poorly, they can be dangerous I guess?  But, so can a regular bow.  Just make sure to get a good mating and good glue lines. 
Title: Re: Adding length
Post by: Blaflair2 on July 03, 2014, 11:33:06 am
Bubby,When strung where does the string ride in relation to the end of the stave, in my mind as long as the downward force is still pretty centered over where the stave ends it'd work. Nice tips too!!