Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Primitive Skills => Topic started by: streamflyer on January 12, 2014, 01:20:35 pm

Title: Flint And steel
Post by: streamflyer on January 12, 2014, 01:20:35 pm
Hello all. I would like to learn how to use a flint and steel and make myself a kit to take with me backpacking and hunting. I was wondering where I might find a good steel. Is there anything in particular that I should look for or be aware of?
Title: Re: Flint And steel
Post by: Olanigw (Pekane) on January 12, 2014, 01:33:33 pm
find yourself an old-school Nicholson file. Has to be high carbon . 
Title: Re: Flint And steel
Post by: tipi stuff on January 12, 2014, 02:20:35 pm
Olanigw is correct; any high carbon steel file will work. It is easy enough to pick up a cheap used one at a pawn shop. One of the things you might want to do if you use a file, is grind off the edges of the file so that you have a smooth edge. As you strike the flint and steel together, a small piece of hot steel will be shaved off. That is what you see as the sparks. It is easier to get this to work with a flat, smooth surface.

If you decide to buy a steel, there are quite a few places that sell them. They are easy to find on the internet. The place that first comes to my mind is Crazy Crow Trading Post.

You will need some charred material to catch your sparks on. Most people use 100% cotton cloth for this.  An old T-shirt or pair of boxers will foot the bill for this. Cut the material into long strips about 2 inches wide. Fold loosely, and place in an Altoids tin. Put the tin in the fire (a gas grill or propane torch will work), and set it sit until it quits smoking. Remove from heat, and let it sit for about 30 minutes before you open it. When you get ready to use your kit, remove a piece of charred cloth and place it so that you can direct a spark from your flint and steel onto the cloth. People do this in different ways, but I have been most successful by holding my flint in my left hand with a small piece of char cloth on top of the flint. I hold the cloth close to the striking edge with my thumb. I use a downward stroke with the striker in my right hand. I can get a spark to land on the cloth and the cloth will begin to smolder. Blow on the smoldering cloth and place into a small bundle of tinder such as grass. I like to use shredded cedar/ juniper bark for my tinder. Continue blowing into it, and it should light.

Once you master the use of char cloth, you can start using charred, punky wood for the same purpose. The wood is a little more difficult to use, but the technique is the same. I keep a strike a light bag tied to my quiver. The photo that I am attaching shows one of my strike a light bags, flint, steel, charred punk and a fire horn. The purpose of the horn it to snuff out the punk and preserve the thin, crusty layer of char that is needed to get the wood to ignite.
Title: Re: Flint And steel
Post by: KHalverson on January 12, 2014, 05:48:37 pm
Hello all. I would like to learn how to use a flint and steel and make myself a kit to take with me backpacking and hunting. I was wondering where I might find a good steel. Is there anything in particular that I should look for or be aware of?

glenn


not trying to be a smart @$$.
consult with JW .
he will get ya headed in  the right way.

he helped me when I was struggling.
Kevin
Title: Re: Flint And steel
Post by: KrisDelger on January 12, 2014, 06:07:42 pm
I usually use an old Nicoleson file, heat it up, split it into thinner pieces so I can make more than one steel out of it. Then get my bends in. Heat it up again to cherry red, quench it, then temper it so it doesn't shatter. Honestly you can get away with using the spine of a high carbon knife, or even using a high carbon file. Then it's a matter of flints that will throw sparks.
Title: Re: Flint And steel
Post by: stickbender on January 12, 2014, 06:57:49 pm

     All of the above, and if you don't mind stepping a bit out of the purely primitive, you can use pure cotton balls, and saturate them in Vasoline, and store them in a Altoids, can, or other container, old film case, plastic baggie, etc.  And take one of those out, and pull it apart a bit to fluff it a bit, and put a spark to it, and you have flame. ;)  Learn to use the natural tinder also.  The inside of cedar, Juniper, cypress, etc. makes a nice tender, as was already said.  Just pull the inner pieces off the bark, and roll them in your hands, and they will break up, and twist, and become fuzzy, and powdery like, and will take a spark, and start to glow and smolder.  Same with various dry grasses. 

                                                                               Wayne






Title: Re: Flint And steel
Post by: nclonghunter on January 12, 2014, 08:20:17 pm
If you have any muzzle loading rendevous in your area, sutlers will be selling steels that you can test and purchase. Most blacksmiths can make you one easily. Do a web search and you will likely find some for sale.

If you want to make your own then a good file as mentioned is the way to go. Good Luck
Title: Re: Flint And steel
Post by: Mike_H on January 12, 2014, 09:24:58 pm
Can't post nonsponcer links but I got mine from lame beaver trading on Etsy.  Great steel, sparks well.
Title: Re: Flint And steel
Post by: streamflyer on January 13, 2014, 01:16:57 am
Thanks guys I will check all those out. Truth be told JW is cool but I don't want to overuse him as a resource. I am way too excited for the notion of making a fire with flint and steel I saw JW's kit and went and bought a box of altoids . I don't eat them so I put them in a bag for my fiance. She thought I was so sweet till I dumped them into a bag. then i got the look.
Title: Re: Flint And steel
Post by: chamookman on January 13, 2014, 05:22:37 am
Oh No - not the "LOOK"  ;)! A good friend never has a problem getting His tinder bundle going - He puts a charge of FFF from His priming Horn in the tinder  >:D. Bob
Title: Re: Flint And steel
Post by: KHalverson on January 13, 2014, 04:42:04 pm
glenn
pm sent.
Kevin
Title: Re: Flint And steel
Post by: nclonghunter on January 13, 2014, 05:09:44 pm
She will give you the "other look" when you show her how you can make SPARKS and FIRE with flint and steel....trust me
Title: Re: Flint And steel
Post by: Thesquirrelslinger on January 13, 2014, 06:05:03 pm
Oh No - not the "LOOK"  ;)! A good friend never has a problem getting His tinder bundle going - He puts a charge of FFF from His priming Horn in the tinder  >:D. Bob
Ill bet he never has a problem!!!
Would alumnium dust work? I have lots of it because I filed a medieval-style xbow release mech from alumnium. 6061 alloy.
Thought I'd ask here first so I know if it will go boom or not.

BTW a tin for the .22 or .177 pellets works better for the charcloth, it seals better ;)
Title: Re: Flint And steel
Post by: KHalverson on January 13, 2014, 07:44:37 pm
Oh No - not the "LOOK"  ;)! A good friend never has a problem getting His tinder bundle going - He puts a charge of FFF from His priming Horn in the tinder  >:D. Bob
Ill bet he never has a problem!!!
Would alumnium dust work? I have lots of it because I filed a medieval-style xbow release mech from alumnium. 6061 alloy.
Thought I'd ask here first so I know if it will go boom or not.

BTW a tin for the .22 or .177 pellets works better for the charcloth, it seals better ;)

squirrel
aluminum wont work .
you need magnesium.
Title: Re: Flint And steel
Post by: nclonghunter on January 14, 2014, 11:11:49 am
Take a look at "Track of the Wolf, Inc." They sell striker kits at a good price.
Title: Re: Flint And steel
Post by: Gus on January 14, 2014, 02:42:00 pm
Cool Thread...

I'm working on assembling a Fire Bow Kit and subsequent Fire(here's hoping)...
After that I'll move to Flint N Steel...
Then maybe Fire Piston.

Good Luck!

-gus
Title: Re: Flint And steel
Post by: Outbackbob48 on January 14, 2014, 11:30:52 pm
If you get bored building fires with char cloth (easy peasy) try some milkweed ovum, I rip them in half and use both pcs, gives ya a little more surface to catch spark, they work real well just alot smaller edge to catch sparks. Bob
Title: Re: Flint And steel
Post by: AncientArcher76 on January 15, 2014, 03:23:05 am
Listen to Bob, I witnessed him on several occasions start a fire using several tinder and methods, mushrooms, milkweed, plant fiber...Bob had a fire going with a bow drill in oh about 4 seconds and Im not sure if I remember correctly I think the spindle was some kind of weed.. I have a few files I can use but don't have a torch!  I want to pound it out and wrap it around like they do..  That is a very nice bead work in that picture Tipi.. Good luck with your endeavor!

Russ
Title: Re: Flint And steel
Post by: tipi stuff on January 15, 2014, 08:34:35 pm
Thanks for the complements on the bag Russ. I make a lot of plains Indian stuff, so my bows are pretty simple little stick bows. I am constantly amazed at the talent of the members of this group when it come to making really nice bows, arrows, points, etc. When someone throws up a message that I can contribute to, I jump at the chance.
I haven't tried the milkweed yet, but we are half way to summer. That gives me a project to look forward to. Bob, do you use the pod after it has already opened?  Curtis
Title: Re: Flint And steel
Post by: Outbackbob48 on January 21, 2014, 06:14:27 pm
Curtis, now is an excellent time of yr to gather milkweed ovum, Usually by this time pods are cracked open an seeds an fluff is dispersed. If not just open them a make sure you spread seeds for next yrs crop, I just put the ovums in a little tin an keep them dry. Alot of pods naturally turn up side down so ovum is all ready dry. Let me know how ya make out. Bob
Title: Re: Flint And steel
Post by: tipi stuff on January 21, 2014, 08:06:58 pm
Bob; when you say ovum, you mean ovum! For some reason, I had the seed fluff in mind. I need to read more closely. You are right, I have those on hand right now!. I am excited to get to try a few.  Curtis
Title: Re: Flint And steel
Post by: Outbackbob48 on January 21, 2014, 11:34:58 pm
Curtis, the fluff is flammable but not with a spark, not hot enough, tear the ovum in two an catch spark on the thin edge. ;D :o Bob
Title: Re: Flint And steel
Post by: chamookman on January 22, 2014, 04:49:24 am
Bob - You wouldn't happen to have some pics would You ? I know the pod & fluff and would like to try this. Thanks - Bob.
Title: Re: Flint And steel
Post by: Outbackbob48 on January 22, 2014, 10:49:43 am
Bob, here is a picture of just ovum removed from pods, the one in left corner is ripped in 2 an ready to be held on flint an try an catch a spark on thin edge. Second poor picture is how I hold them on flint, be patient in trying to catch spark on thin edge. You know how it is, If alone catchs spark on first try ;D, if giving a demo for 30 people takes thirty strikes to catch spark :( Have fun, Bob
Title: Re: Flint And steel
Post by: chamookman on January 22, 2014, 11:17:24 am
Thank You Sir ! Now I see - lots of Milk Weed around My area. Bob
Title: Re: Flint And steel
Post by: Thesquirrelslinger on January 22, 2014, 07:54:37 pm
Listen to Bob, I witnessed him on several occasions start a fire using several tinder and methods, mushrooms, milkweed, plant fiber...Bob had a fire going with a bow drill in oh about 4 seconds and Im not sure if I remember correctly I think the spindle was some kind of weed.. I have a few files I can use but don't have a torch!  I want to pound it out and wrap it around like they do..  That is a very nice bead work in that picture Tipi.. Good luck with your endeavor!

Russ
Just take a long pipe(METAL), a hair dryer, and a big campfire of hardwood(Oak works well). Throw file into embers, then hook hair dryer to pipe, jam into coals around file, and turn on.
Try not to blow the coals around.
Title: Re: Flint And steel
Post by: mullet on January 22, 2014, 08:46:31 pm
Listen to Bob, I witnessed him on several occasions start a fire using several tinder and methods, mushrooms, milkweed, plant fiber...Bob had a fire going with a bow drill in oh about 4 seconds and Im not sure if I remember correctly I think the spindle was some kind of weed.. I have a few files I can use but don't have a torch!  I want to pound it out and wrap it around like they do..  That is a very nice bead work in that picture Tipi.. Good luck with your endeavor!

Russ
Just take a long pipe(METAL), a hair dryer, and a big campfire of hardwood(Oak works well). Throw file into embers, then hook hair dryer to pipe, jam into coals around file, and turn on.
Try not to blow the coals around.

Are you backpacking a Honda Generator with you also? ???
Title: Re: Flint And steel
Post by: stickbender on January 24, 2014, 12:13:53 am

     Squirrelslinger;
Like Kevin said you need magnesium.  But you can mix the two together.  But you are not going to put it out!  You need an extinguisher with a chemical called "Purple K".  And that has a hard time putting it out.  It will melt steel! :o :o  It is basically thermite.  You need aluminum powder, and magnesium powder.  You used to be able to buy aluminum powder at the bigger art supply stores, for making your own silver paint.  As for cheating with the tinder bundle, you just put a little pinch or two of 0000 steel wool, in it, and you have instant fire. ::)  An instant very HOT fire! :P  It will ignite very readily with just a spark!. ;)