Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: huisme on November 16, 2013, 02:34:10 am
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I know it's controversial. I know we should all make bows for the love of making bows or put the rasp away. I know making bows for the money isn't right. I know I can't and will never convince anyone who hasn't shot my bows that I'm qualified.
All of that aside :-X
I've seen bowyers charge six hundred dollars for a simpler design than that for which I charge three fifty. I know some of it comes from the bowyer's experience and superiority in comparison to that one guy from that one site, huisme or something, but besides that how can a bowyer come to a conclusion on how much a bow is worth in US dollars?
Right now I usually figure two hundred to tiller a black locust stave and one fifty for vine maple, ten dollars per every ten pounds over twenty for draw weight and fifteen per five over sixty, forty for bows under fifty inches, twenty dollars for recurves.
All of this is on top of design (I don't do longbows for now due to lack of appropriate wood, and they wouldn't add to the above). Flat and pyramid bows are fifty, paddle bows are seventy five, holmegaardes are one hundred, and mollegabets are a hundred thirty. I'm working on reliably steaming and tillering R/D bows, but I've no idea where they'd fall in the spectrum.
Now my best BL recurved ~70" mollegabets have been fiberglass-competition bows, but according to my current formula they come to $350 plus shipping.
I almost sold this bow for two eighty before I heard him mention the sucker he's buying a bow from, which just makes me that much more confused about prices ??? : http://imgur.com/a/fCEHf (http://imgur.com/a/fCEHf)
Is that right? What should I change?
If this belongs elsewhere feel free to move it, wasn't sure about that.
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You can charge whatever you think is a fair price. One that you make a buck and for the quality and time put in. I charge $400 for a bow. I am raising it ever so slightly every time I feel I have the right to.
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I have pretty much paid people to take mine Lol I would not even begin to know how much to charge ???
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I have pretty much paid people to take mine Lol I would not even begin to know how much to charge ???
Seriously would not have guessed: http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,39418.msg524774.html#msg524774
One of my all time favorites to ;)
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Thanks :D that one cost me a lot of money to get rid of Lol
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It's a good question.
A price that both parties are happy with, and you don't feel guilty about. Also one you wouldn't have a problem handing back if the bow exploded!
I do it for the fun of it anyway, if someone wants a bow which pushes my experience in a new direction they will get a better price, also if they come and visit, discuss it and/or really know what the want.
I've just about finished a 130# self Yew Warbow. Now a commercial bowyer would be asking £600-800 but they have overheads, maybe employees, taxes, insurance etc.
I keep accounts and manage to avoid making enough profit to be of interest to the tax man (spits on floor).
Generally my Yew bows are a tad under £300, much less for other woods say a tad under £200. The warbow is a bit more.
For special cases the bows are V cheap or given away... mind giving stuff away can just mean the stuff isn't appreciated. I've given away coutless staves, I think only one ever became a bow! If some one had to pay for a stave, even just £10 maybe they'd value it more?
A couple of bottles of wine is a good payment for a repair, string, reducing draw weight etc ;D. I generally wouldn't want to touch another bowyers work, but sometimes it is a sensible option...
Look at the auction sites on the web, bearing in mind most of the bows are rubbish.
I was tempted to put a couple of my primitive bows on there as I was running out of room. I didn't because I didn't want my bows alonside that cr4p.
I have seen a couple of Yew longbows bought on the web from Eastern Europe, they were ok... ish. Poor detail round the nocks and poor work on knots IMO.
Del
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I keep accounts and manage to avoid making enough profit to be of interest to the tax man (spits on floor).
;D
Generally my Yew bows are a tad under £300, much less for other woods say a tad under £200.
I think your under selling yourself. Seriously, just a piece of yew over here can cost 200 - 250 USD sometimes, let alone a piece yew that can shoot arrows.
I second that statement that if someone pays for something, they will be more likely to appreciate it. And the bows made on here are all functional works of art, IMO any person who makes a working bow is somewhat of a craftsmen, no matter what quality of bow. My first bow looked ridiculous I am sure, but I put my heart in it, and if someone bought it for 25 bucks and broke it because they didn't care because it was cheap, than that would of freakin hurt at the time. IMO, if you sell your bows for cheap (50 bucks is cheap) some people are going to treat them like they are cheap, so be prepared for that heartache.
I was tempted to put a couple of my primitive bows on there as I was running out of room. I didn't because I didn't want my bows alonside that cr4p.
Hey now, at least you would of set a nice standard and brought along some class, :). I think I have seen Gordon list a bow or two (could be wrong, please correct me if I am wrong), and his bows are the anti-thesis of crap.
No, but Huisme, I think you should price your bows however you want and feel good about in the end, ain't nobody needs to tell you nor can they tell you what to do with your own bows. :)
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After the bow is tillered properly its all about exceptional leather work, exceptional finish work and an exceptional wallet for self promotion. Keep in mind when you see people bragging about what they charge on here? Odds are they are selling to family members. That runs out eventually.
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@ Toomanyknots.
For comparison, at todays price £300 is $483.33
Del
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i sell my bows every once in awhile and i charge $180 for a hickory board recurve. its not too expensive as to put people off and its fairly simple and quick for me to make and the materials are cheap so i make a good profit. your the bowyer, you decide how much your willing to charge for your time, sweat and blood.
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Yes, i made a couple board bows recently and charged 100-175$ for them. It is like I was saying, whatever feels right according to effort and, really a lot of it is opinion.
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I have no experience in selling or even in finishing a bow properly. But I would study the 3Rivers Archery catalog and add a certain percentage for customization. If it takes you hundreds of hours to make a bow, you should charge thousands of dollars if not tens of thousands, especially if it is a record breaker. ;) BTW I only spend several hours for each unfinished bow.
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I have officially stopped selling bows, I now give them away to good friends as well as donating them to charity auctions for children's causes.
I always gave away more bows than I sold but my pricing structure was $300 for a basic osage or bamboo backed osage bow, add snake skins for the actual price of the skins and $50 to put them on. Later on I added all kinds of exotic burl wood to my bows but never raised my price.
Later on people who saw my bows said I was selling much too cheaply, I never was into it for the money and probably spent more on logging bow wood and shop equipment than than I ever made off bows.
I was into it more for the work and to advance the craft than to make money. I definitely got the work and possibly advanced the craft with some of my bow making innovations.
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the guy at the club who im selling the bow to only wanted to pay 80 for the bow but i said 100 minnimum. he agreed. not bad scince the wood was free. ;D
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the guy at the club who im selling the bow to only wanted to pay 80 for the bow but i said 100 minnimum. he agreed. not bad scince the wood was free. ;D
You won't be patting yourself on the back when it whacks him in the head and you have to give him his 100 back plus damages.
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I had a sinew backed osage Plains horse bow sell for $1,700 once. But that was because the purported N.A. bought it off me for $200 and turned around, claimed it was his, and resold it!!!
If I could box up my scruples and put them in storage, I could sell sinew backed hickory board bows over in Germany for $1,500 all day long and overnite on Saturdays. All I would have to do is trump up some fake documentation on Native American Ancestry. But I am a little bit honest down deep inside somewheres and can't make myself do it.
Pricing of bows has a lot to do with how you are perceived by the buyer. To a great degree you are selling the sizzle more than the steak. Band sawn run of the mill oak with a single strand of artificial sinew to hold the bend sells for $400 at a local Native American art gallery here in town. They won't hold up even as good as the rubber suction cup kiddie bows sold in the dollar stores! I turn out a museum researched replica of an actual artifact, a shooting replica to boot, and I am lucky to get $5/hour for my work (not to mention nothing for my materials). Face it, tourists don't want to buy a bow from a sunburnt gingerhaired Scandanavian. So they are obviously NOT a market I can tap.
But now and then a real archery fiend will find me and start talking about getting one of my bows. If they are willing to stick to the conversation and really work out what it is they want and expect out of the bow...well, let's just say end up with something that is almost a gimme.
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Good post JW
That's another illustration of why I won't sell on E-bay... don't want people buying and re-selling. Also don't want to sell to some idiot who strings it backwards and conplains it's smashed.
It's the wise man who knows when he's happy doin' what he wants. If my hobby pays for it'self that's fine.
The right person will get a bow at a very generous price... Bill Gates or most polticians on t'other hand would have to pay a king's ransom... Nah, I just wouldn't sell 'em a bow >:D
Del
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what sorta price does a one pice Yew ELB sell for?
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Also don't want to sell to some idiot who strings it backwards and conplains it's smashed.
Third guy I did business with. Tried to 'correct' a wiggly limb, luckily it just collapsed.
Am I wrong in thinking I see terrible hinges in those Osage bows on ebay? I like to think nobody would shame Osage like that, but for the life of me those things look like they're going to snap.
Thanks guys! If all this stands I guess there's really not much to change save for maybe when I get lucky and make a f@#%&glass shamer.
I'll keep making them pretty and try to do right by all the help you guys have been ;D
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Also don't want to sell to some idiot who strings it backwards and conplains it's smashed.
Third guy I did business with. Tried to 'correct' a wiggly limb, luckily it just collapsed.
Am I wrong in thinking I see terrible hinges in those Osage bows on ebay? I like to think nobody would shame Osage like that, but for the life of me those things look like they're going to snap.
Thanks guys! If all this stands I guess there's really not much to change save for maybe when I get lucky and make a f@#%&glass shamer.
I'll keep making them pretty and try to do right by all the help you guys have been ;D
yep some of thoose bows have terrible hinges.
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Don Adams used to get $1,000 for the most basic yew ELB. But he worked many years to build a credible reputation based on a long track record of well made equipment.
I think maybe a better question than how to price bows is to ask how long should your bows be shot and used aggressively before you think you should be selling them. If you can build a bow that lasts for a good 5 years of near daily use and abuse, maybe then you could consider selling. Because frankly, most people buying a bow will say they will be careful with it and follow all safety rules, but in their heart of hearts they think since they paid for it they can bloody well treat it any way they want without fear of repercussions!
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Super high quality work is the easy part. Self promotion drives price. I've seen countless $1000 bows I wouldn't rate at $350, yet a living is being made at $1000 each.
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Another thing I refused to do was sell a bow to a non archer to only be used as a wall hanger on display, I want them shot.
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I use to sell my woodwork, items like keepsake boxes. I was lucky to make $5-$7 dollars per hour. I did it for the enjoyment of woodworking and passing the time. Some boxes were very bland and others were down right unique and decent quality. Having said that; If I ever produce top quality wood bows I would never ask more than $350.00 tops. Anything more than that would have to be a 3 piece or an R/D.
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I haven't sold many but I agree with that it's simply what you think it's worth. For me that generally varies between one to six hundred, I won't go over two hundred on a board bow and I might go up to eight or nine hundred for something that has every bell and whistle I can pull out. And occasionally I might sell one for like fifty or less bucks if somebody just wants something to shoot
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it's a artisan craft!if a fellqa can't charge 30 bucks an hr well i don,t know!but i'm not even close to that!
!
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Charge whatever you want. Someone might pay. For people like me and others on this site. We love making bows and have no use for 300+ bows in our house. Sell them for what people will pay for them, Not what they are worth. Or give them away. Don't quit your day job.
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I disagree with the notion that bows should not be made for sale. I'm not interested in selling them but I am liking to trade them for stuff.
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It's like a friend of mine who does some of the most amazing wood turning, really high class and perfectly finished....he can't make any money at it because there are loads of older/retired folks who do wood turning as a hobby - and then they sell the things they make for virtually nothing. This i what determines the 'market price' for something. It as though if they cover the price of the wood blank then that's enough for them because it's just a hobby and they don't need to make any money at it. If however you want to do this sort of thing for a living you have to charge a lot more to come even close to actually making a living and not just scraping by all the time.
I'm just about ready to give up making bows for a living. When I see you guys quoting $200 or whatever for a bow then that's cool but I know for a fact that a living can't be made at those prices. What you have got to remember with bows is that the market is very small, even looking at it Worldwide. The overheads start adding up mighty quick and then of course you still have to be able to find perfectly straight grained wood as and when you need it. Wood prices are on the up and up and are never going to get cheaper now. The best boards are bought up long before they even reach woodyards where your average guy can go and buy.
Heck making bows for other people is just a pain and you are really going to have to complete the whole package to make any money long term. I think for guys who got into it a while ago and did some good marketing there's a chance but for the new guy trying to get his name out there - it's a hard way to earn a crust. I could go and get a 'normal' job that would pay many times what i'm getting now with a whole lot less hassle.
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the guy at the club who im selling the bow to only wanted to pay 80 for the bow but i said 100 minnimum. he agreed. not bad scince the wood was free. ;D
You won't be patting yourself on the back when it whacks him in the head and you have to give him his 100 back plus damages.
I could not agree more! I have seen what people do with bows at shows....trying to string them....then trying to "man up" drawing them. You better look for some good insurance, and expect to remake bows because they let their buddy draw it. Remember these are all wood bows, and even the best bowyer can't guarantee (in extreme conditions) that the wood won't give.
I personally would did this....I would figure what I would want per hr, then add what you feel the materials are worth, and set your price..........with that said.....I would add 25% to cover your taxes, plus in the event the bow breaks you can cover the costs of the materials for free and only be out your time. .02
I only sell supplies now, and let them break it.
VMB
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It's like a friend of mine who does some of the most amazing wood turning, really high class and perfectly finished....he can't make any money at it because there are loads of older/retired folks who do wood turning as a hobby - and then they sell the things they make for virtually nothing. This i what determines the 'market price' for something. It as though if they cover the price of the wood blank then that's enough for them because it's just a hobby and they don't need to make any money at it. If however you want to do this sort of thing for a living you have to charge a lot more to come even close to actually making a living and not just scraping by all the time.
I'm just about ready to give up making bows for a living. When I see you guys quoting $200 or whatever for a bow then that's cool but I know for a fact that a living can't be made at those prices. What you have got to remember with bows is that the market is very small, even looking at it Worldwide. The overheads start adding up mighty quick and then of course you still have to be able to find perfectly straight grained wood as and when you need it. Wood prices are on the up and up and are never going to get cheaper now. The best boards are bought up long before they even reach woodyards where your average guy can go and buy.
Heck making bows for other people is just a pain and you are really going to have to complete the whole package to make any money long term. I think for guys who got into it a while ago and did some good marketing there's a chance but for the new guy trying to get his name out there - it's a hard way to earn a crust. I could go and get a 'normal' job that would pay many times what i'm getting now with a whole lot less hassle.
I would like to look at you business plan......depends on what you are trying to make. Board bows cranked out for the newbie @200 is doable "if" you are willing to drop the artistic side of bow making. Easy add ons (cherry bark, snake skins ect.) are easy to apply, and a really easy upsell.
VMB
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Selling wood bows is tricky for a number of reasons already elaborated here. I am trying to make a living at it and it is not easy. Like Brian, I have found that selling the supplies to make bows is better business, simply because there is so much less headache. As far as your question about pricing, it depends a lot on whether or not you are a registered tax paying business or just a bowyer who sells a couple on the side. The registered business has a lot more overhead and liability. I dont know if the liability is all that different from a legal standpoint, but the target on your back is much bigger. A registered archery business also has to pay Federal Excise tax on each bow sold, whereas if you are just selling a couple here and there, you are probably not paying this tax. This FET, the result of the Robertson Pitman act goes to fund government wildlife management and habitat protection, creation. It is the same tax rifle and ammo manufacturers pay. I don't get up in arms (no pun intended) over paying this additional tax, as it is one of the most successful user pay/user benefit tax systems in the world. I am sure it is not perfect, but I like to think that money I give to Uncle Sam actually does get used to create more hunting opportunities.
As for pricing in general, the level of finish work greatly determines the final price of a bow.
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Selling wood bows is tricky for a number of reasons already elaborated here. I am trying to make a living at it and it is not easy. Like Brian, I have found that selling the supplies to make bows is better business, simply because there is so much less headache. As far as your question about pricing, it depends a lot on whether or not you are a registered tax paying business or just a bowyer who sells a couple on the side. The registered business has a lot more overhead and liability. I dont know if the liability is all that different from a legal standpoint, but the target on your back is much bigger. A registered archery business also has to pay Federal Excise tax on each bow sold, whereas if you are just selling a couple here and there, you are probably not paying this tax. This FET, the result of the Robertson Pitman act goes to fund government wildlife management and habitat protection, creation. It is the same tax rifle and ammo manufacturers pay. I don't get up in arms (no pun intended) over paying this additional tax, as it is one of the most successful user pay/user benefit tax systems in the world. I am sure it is not perfect, but I like to think that money I give to Uncle Sam actually does get used to create more hunting opportunities.
As for pricing in general, the level of finish work greatly determines the final price of a bow.
That 11% Pittman-Robertson Act tax is an amazing benefit for those of us that hunt public land and can't afford to pay access fees to paid hunting operations. (Besides, pay hunting to me is much like visiting a woman of financially negotiable morality.) No other industry or organization in the U.S. has ever voted a tax that high on themselves....EVER! Guess that's what the outdoors means to us, huh?
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There's a small percentage of the population that is interested in archery. Of that group most of them are interested in compound bows. Of those that are left the vast majority of those are interested in fiberglass bows. That leaves a measly pool of prospective archers that are interested in wooden bows. AND THEN, I'd say a fair majority of that small number of wood bow enthusiasts are wanting to make their own bows as opposed to buying them. From a business perspective that's a pretty dismal customer base. I sell a few bows here and there on the side.
I do like vinemaplebows says and figure what my time's worth and then factor in the material cost. There's no value in under selling yourself. If you're going to "give them away" you may as well literally give them away. I agree with the idea that most people will value the bow about as much as they paid for it. If they buy a bow for $100 then they'll treat it like it's worth $100 but if they pay $600 then they'll treasure it more and show it off proudly. Plus, raising your price will serve to cut out many people who will not take the bow seriously to start with. Not to say any of that is a guarantee but it can help tip the odds in your favor.
That being said, you need to do your damndest to make sure your bows are worth what you're asking. both in performance, durability and appearance. We're not trying to hoodwink anyone. Like JW said it can be a fine line between giving people what they want and taking advantage of them. You want to walk away from each transaction feeling like it was worth your time and you made someone's day and they should walk away feeling like they just bought a priceless treasure for $500 (or whatever price).
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Don't forget the renaissance fairs, if you can hack it you will find some buyers there. These buyers are looking for bows on the cheap, make them witrh this in mind....they are not archers for the most part. Red oak, white oak should be fine for this group. Remember you are selling to ALL KINDS......What we may cringe at here, they may think is really cool. I just can't dress in dresses, I dress bad enough as it is! ;)
VMB
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Do english longbows and warbows fall under the FET tax, as they are for the most part not made to hunt with?
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There was an article on this in a past PA. Yes, if a bow is hunting weight it falls under the same category.
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the guy at the club who im selling the bow to only wanted to pay 80 for the bow but i said 100 minnimum. he agreed. not bad scince the wood was free. ;D
No sence in bragging over free wood i get all my wood free from the woods
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Don't forget the renaissance fairs, if you can hack it you will find some buyers there. These buyers are looking for bows on the cheap, make them witrh this in mind....they are not archers for the most part. Red oak, white oak should be fine for this group. Remember you are selling to ALL KINDS......What we may cringe at here, they may think is really cool. I just can't dress in dresses, I dress bad enough as it is! ;)
i'd wear a dress if I could meet this gal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVbu8bh7SWk
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Don't even have to click the link. The hot violinist, right?
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you got that right Pat
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Yep, nothin like a women that knows how to stroke her instrument with a smile! 8)
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Yep, nothin like a women that knows how to stroke her instrument with a smile! 8)
So off topic--
But so correct.
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I almost sold this bow for two eighty before I heard him mention the sucker he's buying a bow from, which just makes me that much more confused about prices ??? : http://imgur.com/a/fCEHf (http://imgur.com/a/fCEHf)
Huisme, hearing a person say that right there would irritate me to no end. I'd prolly tell him to go find another place to buy a bow from. I'm pretty new to this. I have yet to make a bow that I would be willing to give away much less sell. I have put a lot of time in the little that I have done compared to others on here. I think my problem is that I strive to make everything too perfect, and I'm too inexperienced to be doing that. But I'm just that way, I do it at work on the job, I guess it's a pride thing. I don't brag on myself or pat myself on the back but after I build something I like to be able to step back and look at what I have made and know in my heart that I made it to the best of my ability and gave it my all. And if I did that with the bow you showed in the pic and heard someone make that comment...... well, lets just say that he wouldn't like what I had to say back. An old friend, who was like a grandfather to me, always told me growing up that "if something is worth doing, then its worth doing well".
It seems to me that the potential buyer knew the value of the bow you made and was expecting it to cost a lot more than what you were going to ask for it. In turn he thought he was getting a pretty good deal which made him think that you were a sucker for not charging more! Personally, I think you made a fine bow, but I don't think I could sell him that bow after the comment because I don't think he would appreciate everything that went into creating it. As was said before, when people don't have to pay much for things they take it for granted.
I don't know if I will ever sell a bow, but if I did I would charge enough to for sure make a profit off of it after taking into consideration the time and skill level you feel you are at. Just my 2 cents!
Oh.... I almost forgot..... there is a mark-up of $100 for each comment like that. >:D
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My exact words were "I'm not a sucker and these aren't lollypops they're bows, and I've decided they're too expensive for you." After that I just walked into the house before I made a fool of myself.
And wrote that down because it's one of the coolest things I've said.
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This discussion reminded me of a few thoughts a week or two ago.
I was off to my friends woodland and took far too much kit as usual. I was then left with the decision of what to leave in the car and what to take. I stood there with my rifle in one hand and my current favourite bow in the other.
After very little time I decided the rifle would stay in the car just incase the car goes missing or is broken into.
The rifle is probably worth £300 and the actual car not more than £500 i guess.
BUT I can always buy a new car or rifle but I would struggle to find another piece of wood as beautiful not to mention the odds of it making a bow.
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I sell very few bows,but when I an confronted by someone that won't take no for an answer,I will price it for way more than I feel it is worth,hoping to scared them off, ;) so far that hasn't worked. :-\ I just hate deadlines and hate to have to do something until I am in the mood. :)
Pappy
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This discussion reminded me of a few thoughts a week or two ago.
I was off to my friends woodland and took far too much kit as usual. I was then left with the decision of what to leave in the car and what to take. I stood there with my rifle in one hand and my current favourite bow in the other.
After very little time I decided the rifle would stay in the car just incase the car goes missing or is broken into.
The rifle is probably worth £300 and the actual car not more than £500 i guess.
BUT I can always buy a new car or rifle but I would struggle to find another piece of wood as beautiful not to mention the odds of it making a bow.
Man I so feel you.
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I've only given away bows to this point. But I feel like I have reached a skill level where I would be comfortable selling some of my better work.
Personally I wouldn't charge any less than $200 for a wall hanger bow. And I'd charge a fair bit more than that for good shooters. People will pay for it.
Don't be worried to charge plenty for what you do. There is only a handful of people who do it, and even less who do it very well. These aren't mass produced items. There aren't ten thousand other guys running around with the same cookie cutter bows. These are custom built, one of a kind, functional works of art. Price them as such.
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I wouldn't sell a bow to be hung on a wall and looked at >:( *.
Paint a picture to hang on a wall, maybe... but bows are for shooting!
Del
* Well maybe an old shot out or smashed and glued back together bow... but then I'd give it away... or maybe I'd accept a pint or a bottle of wine O:)
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If they want to pay me their hard earned dollars for a bow I've made, they can do with it what they want. Mind you I might not be so happy if they tossed it in a wood chipper right in front of me, but it makes no difference to me if they intend to use it, hang it on a wall, stuff it in a closet, or resell it. Once the trade's been made, its no longer my business.
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I wouldn't sell a bow to be hung on a wall and looked at >:( *.
Paint a picture to hang on a wall, maybe... but bows are for shooting!
Del
* Well maybe an old shot out or smashed and glued back together bow... but then I'd give it away... or maybe I'd accept a pint or a bottle of wine O:)
Ha, I'm also a sketch artist.
Old WIP
(http://i.imgur.com/AP6MEH1.jpg)
A bow should definitely not be treated like a painting; it's meant for other things, and I can supply both ;) ;D
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Nice :)
I do the odd painting now and again... tends to be abstract...
Del
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That's pretty nice work. Never been very artistic with a pencil, but I've always been fascinated by people that are.
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I like to think it's helped me learn bowyery. I've broken less and learned faster than most people say they have, but I've always been an art/science nut. I could already eyeball angles, gradations, proportions, etc, and thought rather vividly about physics, moving things and bumping them into each other in my head. It was just another step when I started bending things, I guess ???
Which isn't to brag, my unfortunate scrap pile is up to my waist ::)
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I wouldn't sell a bow to be hung on a wall and looked at >:( *.
Paint a picture to hang on a wall, maybe... but bows are for shooting!
Del
* Well maybe an old shot out or smashed and glued back together bow... but then I'd give it away... or maybe I'd accept a pint or a bottle of wine O:)
Ha, I'm also a sketch artist.
Old WIP
(http://i.imgur.com/AP6MEH1.jpg)
A bow should definitely not be treated like a painting; it's meant for other things, and I can supply both ;) ;D
That's very good. You'd make a lot of white cakes in jail, ;D. Seriously though, that is very good. And I would sell anyone a wall hanger if they want it, what would I have to do, just string a longer dowel or something? Cut a branch, and put some nocks on it? Ya I could sell you that.