Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: paleryder on April 09, 2013, 11:52:02 pm

Title: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: paleryder on April 09, 2013, 11:52:02 pm
As of late, I've been lost in the Menard Forest. It has treated me well but I'd like to make a bow from a cut tree. It looks like I might have a real tree or trees available for bows. A local landowner is clearing a wooded area. I looked into it and told him what I would do with the trees if he let me have them. He said he had some cherry that was already cut and more to come. There are a couple of 8 foot pieces already on the ground. Here's a pic of one:

(http://i1039.photobucket.com/albums/a480/paleryder1/IMG-20130409-00006_zpsbaac59cb.jpg)

My hand span is about 10" and it just fits the diameter of the log. He has some other trees still standing. Not sure what species this is. Any idea? Good for bows?

Well, the real treat is he mentioned he had a bunch of hackberry trees but, he said, "You wouldn't want any of that." He has a lot and I think I can have as much as I want because he has no use for it. Here's a tree I found that is standing:

(http://i1039.photobucket.com/albums/a480/paleryder1/Archery/wood/IMG-20130409-00007_zpsc51593e7.jpg)

Here it is upclose:

(http://i1039.photobucket.com/albums/a480/paleryder1/Archery/wood/IMG-20130409-00009_zpse8c75f78.jpg)

I'm happy. I've never workd with hackberry. If I cut this down, can I just split it out and let it set or do I need to debark it too? If I debark it, do I have to seal the back or just the ends? Thanks.

Todd
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: osage outlaw on April 10, 2013, 12:49:47 am
I would be very cautious of the stuff that was already cut.  It looks like in the picture of the Cherry log that the bark has started to slip on it.  White woods go bad very fast if left out after being cut.  That hackberry tree looks great.  Wait to cut it until the sap is running good so the bark will peal off easily.  I always seal the backs of staves when I remove the bark no matter what type of tree it is.  I did experiment on hackberry the last time I cut it.  I sealed all the staves except for one.  It did not check.
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: paleryder on April 10, 2013, 01:35:03 am
Outlaw,

I did notice that some of the heartwood in some of the other cherry pieces were already apparently eaten by bugs. This log looked decent but I will look for one that is not yet cut.

As for the hackberry, what did you use to seal it? If you seal it, do you then have to go down a ring in order to remove the sealant or are you preparing the back completely before sealing or is it a sealant that doesn't need to be removed?

Thanks for the advice on harvesting. I may be able to put off the harvest for a week or two but that's probably about it.

Todd
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: Granite Mtn on April 10, 2013, 02:32:54 am
Just use shellac two or three coats works perfect!
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: mikekeswick on April 10, 2013, 03:50:47 am
Leaving it a little longer will make the bark easier to 'peel' off but don't worry about that! If you only have a week to cut that tree just do it. There looks to be many good staves in it.
For sealing just buy some cheapo pva woodglue, water it down a little or use neat. I find it's the cheapest alternative and it's effective.
To remove it later just a little sanding will do.
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: sleek on April 10, 2013, 05:43:26 am
Be careful with that Cherry. I had a cherry bow almost rip my nipple off when it blew at full draw. The tiller was off a bit,but not enough to justify a break on any other wood. It was even backed with silk. Im just saying, cherry is scary.
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: Pappy on April 10, 2013, 06:36:56 am
Good looking Hackberry,should make many good bows,I do like Mike on the sealing but do like to cut in the late spring if possible. Makes getting the bark off a breeze with no worries of damaging the back,but cut when you can. :) Just don't cut it till you can care for it,like Osage said white wood goes bad very quick on the ground and out in the open. :)
Pappy
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: paleryder on April 10, 2013, 09:27:33 am
Thanks, Gents. I may pass on the cherry since there is quite a bit of hackberry available. I'll see if I can put the cutting off another few weeks. I don't need it right now anyway. Still have a couple of board bows in the works. I have no idea why the picture of the cherry log disappeared. I did not delete it. Hmmm.

Todd
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: Marks on April 10, 2013, 11:26:44 am
Get em both. You can always get rid of the cherry later if you dont like it. We have hackberry coming out our ears around here.
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: autologus on April 10, 2013, 12:12:25 pm
Go ahead and get the cherry you can always use it for handle build ups and tip overlays.

Grady
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: tom sawyer on April 10, 2013, 12:15:16 pm
I understand that cherry can be pretty brittle, you'll want to make those bows plenty long and wide.

Hackberry is a good bow wood.  Its lightweight and makes a snappy bow, maybe doesn't last as long as the denser woods.  When I cut a hackberry I removed bark and only sealed the ends and didn't have any cracks on the back.
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: Prarie Bowyer on April 10, 2013, 02:11:06 pm
That cherry mayhave other gret uses....  :-\  Just saying.
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on April 10, 2013, 02:33:02 pm
Gotta be some Hop Hornbeam in that mix. The 3 species generally live next door. I think I can see one in the pic?
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: Slackbunny on April 10, 2013, 05:05:57 pm
Take the cherry! It gets a bad rap for being brittle, but it makes a sweet shooter when you get it right. Its just a little stubborn sometimes.
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: Marks on April 10, 2013, 05:22:39 pm
Gotta be some Hop Hornbeam in that mix. The 3 species generally live next door. I think I can see one in the pic?

I need to figure out how to ID that stuff.
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on April 10, 2013, 05:47:30 pm
Look on higher spots that are a tad drier, near beech. The bark is scaley grey like hickory, but downsized considerably. The tree itself has a beech shape to it, leaves to. Most are 4-16" trunks. The younger trees dont generally have scaley bark yet, but the pattern is still there. Watch the twist in the bark pattern, its deceiving.
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: okie64 on April 10, 2013, 06:12:34 pm
Thats a good looking hackberry! That tree just to the left of the hackberry looks like a winged elm, get it too, its good stuff, just not as easy to work as hackberry.
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: paleryder on April 11, 2013, 12:10:14 am
Hornbeam....winged elm...you guys are killing me...or my wife will when I bring all this home.  :)

I need to learn to identify these too. It's harder without the leaves.
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: osage outlaw on April 11, 2013, 12:13:25 am
The bark is what I look for on HHB.  To me it looks like cedar bark.  There is none on my place  :(
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: Thesquirrelslinger on April 11, 2013, 02:12:50 am
Question- i have had my ash piece seasoning outside with the bark on, one end is on the ground, the other props it agianst a tree.
is it gonna rot on me?
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: sleek on April 11, 2013, 05:01:19 am
Your biggest worry should be ash borers. The larva will get in there and ruin it in a matter of two months. Take the bark off.
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: DarkSoul on April 11, 2013, 01:46:10 pm
Question- i have had my ash piece seasoning outside with the bark on, one end is on the ground, the other props it agianst a tree.
is it gonna rot on me?


Bark on ash + outside = problems!

Either take the bark off, or put it indoors. Since it has been outside already, strip the bark ASAP. Critters just LOVE the ash bark and first few rings. Rotting isn't much of a problem, but the bugs are.
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on April 11, 2013, 03:52:20 pm
Here are some very clear HHB bark pics. The trees are all 3-12" round.
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: twisted hickory on April 11, 2013, 04:07:14 pm
Does hhb grow up in North west Pennsylvania? I think I have like 8 of those on my place. 8)
Greg
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on April 11, 2013, 04:18:08 pm
Yup. Its a northern tree and Id say PA is a northenr state. Plus my buddy Hawkey Poo cuts it around his place in PA.
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: twisted hickory on April 11, 2013, 04:38:44 pm
I don't see lots of it here but I was thinking that is what it is.
Thanks,
Not wanting to hyjack but curious
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: Marks on April 11, 2013, 05:16:12 pm
Here are some very clear HHB bark pics. The trees are all 3-12" round.

Smack me if I'm wrong but that looks quite similar to maple right? 
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on April 11, 2013, 05:59:01 pm
Not even close, but I wont smack you!
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: paleryder on April 11, 2013, 08:35:45 pm
Thanks for the pics; very helpful. I agree about the ash bark. I removed the bark from an ash branch a year after I cut it. It wasn't cut for bow purposes. Anway, the ash borer was still alive under the bark and had dug a nice hole.

I'd love for some knowledgeable people to put on a "tree indentification clinic" for those of us who cannot tell a maple from a hornbeam. Pics of bark and leaves, etc... whatever will help the botanically challenged. At times I've been in the woods and all the bark starts looking the same.
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: okie64 on April 11, 2013, 10:05:26 pm
Not even close, but I wont smack you!

I think Marks is talking about big, old silver maples. They do have scaly bark kinda similar to that hhb. But the young maples dont look anything close to hhb, they have smooth gray bark.

Paleryder, the best way to learn tree id is get yourself a book with your local trees and study it like a madman. Or you can just google images. You'll be a tree geek in no time. A lot of trees are hard to identify by bark pictures alone, its much easier when you have leaves or buds or you can see the entire silhouette of the tree in person. Big osage trees are easily identifiable just by seeing the silhouette from a 1/4 mile away. Hhb, hackberry, black locust and ash can be identified pretty easily just by seeing the bark. Oaks, hickories and elms are a little harder to id by bark alone.
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on April 11, 2013, 10:37:49 pm
Your best bet is to get a state specific field guide for trees. In color and with pics of bark, twiglets, leaves and fruit. Mine was $12 and taught me all I wanted to know about my state tree's.
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: sleek on April 11, 2013, 10:59:47 pm
(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/smack_zps4fe594da.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/smack_zps4fe594da.jpg.html)


I am sorry, but I couldnt resist :)
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: JW_Halverson on April 11, 2013, 11:07:53 pm
I for one am glad you didn't resist, sleek. 

Dude, if you don't cut that hackberry tree you are banned from this website for life!  I would give my eyeteeth for some of that hack!  It acts differently under a drawknife or spokeshave than osage or other first string bow woods, but the end product can be really amazing.  Hackberry is pretty hard wood for something so darned low in mass.  A good wide flatbow feels almost weightless compared to osage. 

Cut it, split it, de-bark and seal it.  Don't get yourself banned!
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: paleryder on April 11, 2013, 11:24:31 pm
Okay, okay...just don't slap me.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: paleryder on April 11, 2013, 11:26:02 pm
Sleek, that is priceless.
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: Marks on April 15, 2013, 05:04:57 pm
(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/rocketernally/smack_zps4fe594da.jpg) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/rocketernally/media/smack_zps4fe594da.jpg.html)


I am sorry, but I couldnt resist :)

Nice. And yes, i was referring to silver maple. I grew up with silver's in my yard and have them at my new house too.
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: paleryder on August 30, 2013, 04:40:49 pm
Gents,

Well, I goofed. I didn't get out and get the tree for a number of reasons. Here we are end of August/early September and the tree is still growing. Is there any reason to wait or not wait to go harvest the tree? Should I let it finish it's late growth and take it just before it goes dormant or is that feeling driven by unjustified anxiety?  :) It's still available and I found someone interesting in making a bow w/me (trans: I have help splitting wood and debarking). Thanks.

Todd
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: okie64 on August 30, 2013, 07:43:36 pm
The bark might still slip off depending on where you are located and how wet the summer has been in your area. Most of the time when Ive cut wood this late in the summer the bark is already glue down so I usually do my cutting early spring. We usually have pretty dry summers here in Oklahoma though.
Title: Re: Finally some bow wood available
Post by: paleryder on August 30, 2013, 08:52:22 pm
Summer here in Central Illinois has been dry. The property owner is putting the land up for sale. I figured I was too late for an easy bark removal. I didn't know if there was any drawback to harvesting before the end of the growing season.