Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Bitterguy on February 10, 2013, 04:29:40 pm
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I really want to get started but just can't. I had a board bow break during the tillering process a while back, that taught me about choosing a board without run-off. I thought I had found that with my last board a 1"x6"x7' I cut of the section with the straightest grain and realized I would have to cut it down to 5.5' to get it down to one piece of run-off(might no affect the bow to much once i round the corners of it). I wanted to start out simple with a long bow but idk where to go from here. Is there some sort of formula for figuring out the length/size of the fades to the tips?
Also I live in central pa(blair county) so if anyone in that area know anywhere to get some decent wood, preferably a place where i can cut down a tree to get a stave or two but a place that sells nice boards would be nice as well.
As always, thank you in advance.
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If you answer my question, I will answer yours?
What ever happened to all the arrow building material that we sent to you? I never heard or seen anything back.
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If you answer my question, I will answer yours?
What ever happened to all the arrow building material that we sent to you? I never heard or seen anything back.
Sorry about that, I don't have a fletching jig, any heads, an idea of what to do and a bow to shoot them out of. Yet again I am sorry for that
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Maybe jumped the gun a little? Do you still have it all?
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Maybe jumped the gun a little? Do you still have it all?
Every last piece of it
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Take a look around your country side. Must be some good saplings and trees around the forest and hills.! Grab an AXE or saw and have at 'er. You will be happier working on staves rather than sick boards with grain issues.
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Good for you.
63" is enough to make a great bow. I assume its oak. First rip off a 1 5/8" wide strip from that wide board. Then find the lenghtwise center and mark it. From center measure out 18" on each limb and mark it across the limb. Go to each end and find the exact center and mark it. Measure 3/8" on each side of center and mark it. That will make your 3/4" wide tips. Now go back to that 18" line and using a yard stick draw in a line from that 18 mark to the 3/8" off center mark you just made at the tips. That forms your width taper. Do it again on the other side. When your done remove all that material and check back in.
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If you want to drive just south of Ebensburg, I will give you a hickory stave already seasoned. PM me and let me know. I will also show you a tree to cut. Cant just give a man a fish you know.
Bob
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Good for you.
63" is enough to make a great bow. I assume its oak. First rip off a 1 5/8" wide strip from that wide board. Then find the lenghtwise center and mark it. From center measure out 18" on each limb and mark it across the limb. Go to each end and find the exact center and mark it. Measure 3/8" on each side of center and mark it. That will make your 3/4" wide tips. Now go back to that 18" line and using a yard stick draw in a line from that 18 mark to the 3/8" off center mark you just made at the tips. That forms your width taper. Do it again on the other side. When your done remove all that material and check back in.
Done and done!
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Take Bob up on his offer. Its a good one.
Now measure the thickness at 1/2" on center and mark it. Measure the thickness at 7/16" on the tips and mark it. Take your yard stick and connect those two point. Do that twice on each limb. Remove that wood to form a nice taper to start tillering with. Dont go below that line when you are removin g wood.
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One day, ya might wanna just go run around in the woods and hunt for straight saplings. If ya know what black locust looks like, or hop horn beam, you can alot of the time find nice straight saplings ( or at least I know of a couple spots where there are alot of nice straight hop horn beam saplings, I don't know if it commonly grows like this though). Or just whatever species, and take em home, remove the bark, reduce the belly, and let it dry a few weeks. Tie it down maybe to reduce warping. Than in a couple weeks just go at it. If anything gets my primal bow making instincts running full throttle, it is this, ;D.
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Take Bob up on his offer. Its a good one.
Now measure the thickness at 1/2" on center and mark it. Measure the thickness at 7/16" on the tips and mark it. Take your yard stick and connect those two point. Do that twice on each limb. Remove that wood to form a nice taper to start tillering with. Dont go below that line when you are removin g wood.
My board is actually 3/4" should I still mark 1/2" down?
Edit: should I rasp it down to there and round off the edges or just make it, for example 1/2" on the center, across the 1 5/8"?
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You want an even thickness taper from center out. It starts at 1/2" and slightly tapers to 7/16" at the tips.
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You want an even thickness taper from center out. It starts at 1/2" and slightly tapers to 7/16" at the tips.
x2, great advise that your getting, i'd take it all, Bub
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You want an even thickness taper from center out. It starts at 1/2" and slightly tapers to 7/16" at the tips.
By thickness you mean the sides correct? Sorry I know I'm still really new at this but a 1/4 thick board just sounds like it'll snap
I've attached a picture, the top most side being the side I would take wood off of
(http://www.imgur.com/m0T8MkM.jpeg)
Edit: ohhh nvm now i see, im supposed to make it 1/2" thick not take 1/2" off. So i should basically flip the board around and take off wood from that side
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Now your catching on. From the side your bow will 1/2" in the center thinning down to 7/16" at the tips. Are you seeing how both your width and thickness tapers change together now? That creates an EVEN, smooth bend while allowing the bow to narrow towards its tips. Get that done and its time to cut string grooves in.
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Listen to Pearly about the thickness taper of the limb. He finely got that beat into my head and it really helps. I take my ferriors rasp and taper the limbs down evenly. When it comes time to tiller, there aren't any suprises, its already got a nice bend to it. Then its just some fine tuning and removing wood to get to your weight.
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Now your catching on. From the side your bow will 1/2" in the center thinning down to 7/16" at the tips. Are you seeing how both your width and thickness tapers change together now? That creates an EVEN, smooth bend while allowing the bow to narrow towards its tips. Get that done and its time to cut string grooves in.
I really like how easy you are making this sound Pearl Drums. I usually suffer paralysis by analysis, and end up not doing anything. Good advice on this thread.
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Now your catching on. From the side your bow will 1/2" in the center thinning down to 7/16" at the tips. Are you seeing how both your width and thickness tapers change together now? That creates an EVEN, smooth bend while allowing the bow to narrow towards its tips. Get that done and its time to cut string grooves in.
I really like how easy you are making this sound Pearl Drums. I usually suffer paralysis by analysis, and end up not doing anything. Good advice on this thread.
Really good advice, I suffer through the same thing but this makes it almost easy (so far)
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If you can't get the nerve up take a snort of whiskey and dive in. >:D
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Alright, i got the thickness tapered down as evenly as I can
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Come back 1" off each tip and file in string grooves at 45 degree angles towards the belly, they should be deep enough to hold your string.
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towards the belly as in \_______/ ?
n belly n
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Like this.
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Which side should be my belly, or does it not matter?
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The belly always faces the archer, the back always faces the target. No matter what bow or who made it. In your case the back is the portion you havent touched on that board. You rasped your thickness taper in on the belly. The back of a bow never gets touched until its time to sand. All tillering and wood removal will be on the belly from here out.
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The belly always faces the archer, the back always faces the target. No matter what bow or who made it. In your case the back is the portion you havent touched on that board. You rasped your thickness taper in on the belly. The back of a bow never gets touched until its time to sand. All tillering and wood removal will be on the belly from here out.
Got that done, they are a bit offset but it shouldn't cause a problem. What next?
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Get a bow string in the 68" length range. Im guessing you have to tree or board to tiller with?
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Is this good enough?
(http://www.imgur.com/TZu1bRX.jpeg)
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Good enough. Next one you make you need to angle those slots upward so the string cant slip out any way.
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Noted, what should I do once my string is made?
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Can you flex the bow at all yet? Put a tip in the ground and grab the upper tip with your left hand while pushing at the center with your right hand. It should flex decently.
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I made a string that's about 67" with the know in, it hangs on the bow with about 11" of slack. The bow also bend pretty nicely when I do that
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Great. Put the bow up on your tree and pull the string down to a notch that moves your tips at least a 3-4 inches. Then snap a pic.
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(http://www.imgur.com/U5y6ab9.jpeg)
Sorry if its hard to tell, I need to get around to building a proper hollering tree
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the whole outer limb on each side is stiff, almost all the bend if not all is in the handle right now, so basically you should mark all the stiff spots on the limb and then scrape it off, then repeat, rinse repeat, ect. Like i said, the bow isnt bending at all in the limbs except maybe in the fades, not sure, but leave the handle and maybe a few inches out till you get it bending more in each limb.
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Pull it down 3" more.
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I forgot to mention you need to round of the sharp edges on your back, both sides, end to end. Give them a decent rounding, not quite pea size.
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muffin there are no fades, its a bendy handle bow. Its supposed to work.
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yep, i call em fades anyways cus i always make my bow have a deeper handle and then i just fade out to the regular width, i make all my bows bend in the handle because it seems to be less hassle, but thats just me.
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(http://www.imgur.com/W3e8ulZ.jpeg)
Sand em down or just rasp em out a bit?
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Rasp, then round them nicely with a sanding block.
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Here is a build a long that might provide you with some helpful information.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,3895.0.html (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,3895.0.html)
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Rasp, then round them nicely with a sanding block.
and as for the tiller?
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Not alot of bending yet. Do you have scales?
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Continue marking the areas where the bow does not seem to be bending and lightly scrape wood off those areas...remember the "lightly" part. It's better to have to repeat the scraping on a spot 6 or 7 times until it bends right, than it is to go in there and show the wood who's boss. Trust me, the bow will quickly show you who is boss! >:D
All this advice step by step is like those old movies where the private that hates the company commander is on the radio with the medical unit getting the step by step on how to operate on the old man, thus saving his life and suddenly they are best buddies for life.
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I have a bathroom scale
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Continue marking the areas where the bow does not seem to be bending and lightly scrape wood off those areas...remember the "lightly" part. It's better to have to repeat the scraping on a spot 6 or 7 times until it bends right, than it is to go in there and show the wood who's boss. Trust me, the bow will quickly show you who is boss! >:D
All this advice step by step is like those old movies where the private that hates the company commander is on the radio with the medical unit getting the step by step on how to operate on the old man, thus saving his life and suddenly they are best buddies for life.
but i dont hate pearl!
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Then you don't know him well enough yet! >:D
Besides, Pearlie would be the Doctor on the other end of the radio, your patient is the stick of wood!
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How long is it now? I should have asked that question already. Realize Im doing my best from where I am with what you have. Did you get the back edges rounded off? You will need a string 2-3" shorter than your bow soon.
It could be much more complex. Im keeping it incredibly simple so you can shoot your bow this weekend and start thinking about handles, and tip overlays on yor next bow. Consider this a primer.
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She stands tall at 63" with rounded corners
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Brace it low at 2-3" max, just get the string off the bow. If you rasped a good, even taper in you wont have any hinges and at that thickness and length you wont be too heavy to brace LOW.
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(http://www.imgur.com/lyugwpq.jpeg)
That's as good as I could get it, that's slack not brace.
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Close enough. How does it feel when you pluck the string about 1"? Not too heavy is it?
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I just re-read your note. I misunderstood it. Go ahead and tree it. Pull it to 12" and snap a pic.
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I tried that and my fraken hitch not slipped off and scared the everliving crap out of me malng me think my bow broke. Was I towing the know wrong or is something funky with my string?
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Tie a timber hitch. Look it up on google.
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To my knowledge that's what I was tiring, I must have been doingng it wrong, Ill look it up after work
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You probably started the knot on the wrong side of the main string. I did that 3 times a few weeks ago, until Cody pulled my head from my arse.
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(http://www.imgur.com/dslMk13.jpeg)
There she is at 12"
Whenever I took it off the tree it went from being tight against the belly to having 4" of slack, I take it this is my string streching and I just need to tighten it back up?
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Yup, your stgring is stretching. Hook one loop on a still nail and put a screw driver through the other loop. Lean back and let your weight stretch it out. Then twist up and get a 2" brace, Draw it down to 12" and snap a pic.
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(http://www.imgur.com/0RSiNdz.jpeg)
That's about as far as I can get it "braced" its moreso just pulled taut. And to get it like that I put it about 2 inches below Tue knock, knot it off, put the other end ahanst a wall, put my knee on the center of the bow to bend it and slide the knot up to its knock, and the get it to there is a struggle
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Its plenty heavy then. Put it on your tree and pull it down 8-10".
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(http://www.imgur.com/mIet5nI.jpeg)
I took it down to 12" while I was out there
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Guess the poundage where its at right now. Ballpark.
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Uhhhhhhh lots? Like 60# I guess, sorry the last time I pulled back a bow was last year and that was only a 20# er
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Can't be that heavy. Not enough wood. Round your belly edges just like you did the back. Then take nice full length,smooth scrapes on each limb. About 12-15 each. Leave the center 6" alone.
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(http://www.imgur.com/kKx1cs9.jpeg)
There is is, still just as braced and pulled to 12"
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Keep it there. Grab a straight edge about 4-6" long. Your scraper will work. Put the straight edge on edge against the belly near the tiler board. Then SLOWLY run that straight edge down the center of the belly towards the tips. If the gap in the center of the straight edge decreases at all, mark it with a pencil. Continue until you get 6" away from the tips. Then go back and give those penciled areas some scrapes. Maybe 8-10 per spot. Keep in mind most flat spots are 2-4" long while the weak spots are much shorter and harder to recognize oftem times. Go slow. Pull it back and forth to 12-14" 15 times and put it back on the tree, pulled to 16" and snap a pic.
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I'm so Deakin frustrated, I thought my string was strectching , but whenever I tie my know, like I said I tie it about 2 inches from the nock I struggle to bed Tue bow to get the knot up to the nock, it gets the strong taught and I thought it was just still streching once I got it off the tree but the knot is just righting up around the nock Leaving like 4" slack and I just xnt know how to fix it
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Its a your timber hitch slipping. Maybe try to make a new string for this bow with two loops. Or, practice tying your timber hitch. How old are you and how tall are you?
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17, 6'2"
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Alright so your not a sissy then. Got that cleared up. You shouldnt be grunting to low brace that bow. Just by the dimenions Ive given you I dont believe its more than 55-60# right now. Are you using the push/pull method to brace it? If your not. Google pictures and learn to do it properly. I believe its the best and only way to treat any self bow. Get the bow low braced with a good timber hitch. 2-3" will work for now. Get your bathroom scales handy in the garage as well. Your getting close now.
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One of us must have messed up on dimenisions somewhere, I lookedup how brace it w/ push pull and I could still only get it to 1.25"
And I get unbrace it now! O.o
(http://www.imgur.com/gi48plN.jpeg)
My knot did that around my nock and I can't get it off!
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Alright I had my dad bend it so I could loosen it up and I got it off. I feel like it really shouldn't be a 2 man operation to get it off of one nock
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When your timber hitch tightens up it means it working. If it really feels that heavy then reduce it evenly. Full scrapes from handle to tips both side. Count your strokes.
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I scraped it 24 times more on each side and its still a struggle to get it to that 1.5" braced, the only thing I could think of was maybe I'm using the wrong tool and its taking off to little wood
(http://www.imgur.com/7cHryxH.jpeg)
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Oh the joys of trying to describe thru words the things that seen so simple when we can see them !!
What books on building bows do you have ?
Pearl is telling you right , but there is so much that can be hard to see without seeing !! if you have a book that we can refer you to a pic or two in it may help !
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Fng volume 1 is the extent of my bow building library
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What is the thickness at center and mid limb and at the tips.
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Sorry no clue what Fng is
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Its supposed to be tbb but my phone autocorrected
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Thats a rasp. Do you have a scraper? If not you will need to get some 80 grit and smooth the whole belly and edges down good. That will lose several pounds. Check your thickness tapers and be sure they are even on both limbs, no lumps and bumps in the thickness. You want a smooth taper from grip to tip.
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What kind of scrapper should I get and where should I get it?
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you can use a knife for a scraper or take a pir of sissors apart and use one side, I just use a knife
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So my swiss will work? Do I need to sharpen it?
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Try using 50-80 grit sandpaper for now. Tack it to a 1 x 3 x 4 piece of pine board. It makes for a fine sanding block and will remove wood quick providing you use GOOD sandpaper. Did you check your limbs to be sure they are tapered nice and match one another in thickness?
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Im working on evening them up now
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If they match each other in taper and thickness, your bow will to be 95% tillered. A good way to check is to mark off every 4" from center out. Then you can measure each limb in the same spot and write it down. Keep in mind almost 75% of what your doing will only work with boards, most of what your learning wont transfer to stave bows.
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Hooray! I evened it out as best I could, smoothed the belly and then low and behold, my bow pull to we" at a 3" brace.
(http://www.imgur.com/Qmn3G3c.jpeg)
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Looky there.... A bouncing baby almost bow. How does the weight feel now that the bow is braced? What is holding your tree up? Can you slide the scales under it?
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Its a free standing tre, has a 2x4 going across the bottom, and one sticking out in front
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Great. You will need that shortly. Grab a straight edge about 4-5" long. While the bow is pulled to 12" run it edge wise on your belly from fade to tip, mark where that gap thins up at all. Thats where you need to make it bend more. I can the right side is slighty stiff half way.
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Where should I mark where to remove wood, when the top of the block gets less bend, when the whole block has less bend? Sorry if the question is confusing i dont really know how to word it
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Mark center on your straight edge. And watch you gap as you slide it along at that spot. If it closes up at the spot, mark your bow right at your reference mark. :D
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Exactlty, watch the center of the straight edge. Generally flat spots will be a few inches long.
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Way to go !! Pearl & Bitterguy, You'll get a shooter out of her.
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Its funny I used to not be able to get it to 3" brace, but I forgot the space where I I would tight my timber below to notch to get 3" so I got it up to 4" 1/4" haha anyways I didsome tillering during my 2 hour delay and here she is at a 4" brace pulled to 12"
(http://www.imgur.com/y7ei9Qs.jpeg)
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You are getting excellent help by some very fine bowyers. Gotta love this site. Anyway, from what I can see... the middle is bending a lot. You need mid limb to nocks to bend a little more. Anyway, here's my site. Jawge
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/index.html
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Exactly as Jawgey Poo said. Mark off the center 12" and dont let a tool touch it. Then take that aggressive sanding block and hit the next 8" after that blocked off spot. Remember to mark off the last 4" on each tip and dont touch it either. To this day I still write NO in big ol' letters in areas I need to stay away from. High spots on the straight edge need to be avoided until they are even with the rest of the limb. Mark them with a NO as well. I got that excellent tip from an old geezer that goes by "Roy" on here. Dont be scared to put the old buzzard back in his chair if he gets mouthy with you................or if you just feel like it. He aint gonna hurt ya'. Too old and mushy now.
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I did some tillerong when I got home (before pearl posted so I couldnt follow his advice) but here she is at 14"
(http://www.imgur.com/VA9FaqJ.jpeg)
But it looks like she taking a bit of set, this is a picture of her belly up
(http://www.imgur.com/EHshSV8.jpeg)
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Notice where that set is occurring?.................right in the center 12" where its bending most. Thats where reading what the straight edge is telling you counts. You need to do what I mentioned above. Give the right limb a double dose midway.
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The right limb in the tilkering picture I assume?
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Yes. Can you see it being stiffer? Dont get caught up in looking at the tips dipping. Get used to looking at each limb individually as it bends from handle to tip.
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More bending needed mid limb on to the nocks. Jawge
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Ahhhh now my hamsterwheel in my head is starting to turn now. And I also notice that your comment goes full circle pearl ;D
Edit: something else came to mind while i was bracing my bow yesterday, the handle section isnt the most comfortable thing in the world, is it possible for me to get a leather jacket from good will or something and wrap it around the handle area or would that not work on a bendy handle bow?
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I was tillering and I noticed 2 things:
1. Idk wth I was thinking when I thought the right side had rounded corners
2. As you remove wood does your brace height go up? I marked off 5" from the string nock because that's where my 4" brace used to be, but after removeng wood in those sections you told me to remove wood from, I braced it from themark and it was about full draw (a little bit less than a fist and a thumb correct?) n my case about 5"
Anyways here is my bow at 14" with the above mentioned brace
(http://www.imgur.com/bfwD6cc.jpeg)
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That right side still looks stiff midmay. Flip the bow around so I can see if its an optical illusion. What does your straight edge say in that area? I bet the gap skinnys ever so slightly. Dont brace your bow any higher for now. Leave it at 3-4".
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In the picture straight above the top center on your shop vac is stiff. Gotta be.
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This is a cool thread. Reminds me of an old MASH rerun where Hawkeye talks the priest through an in the field tracheotomy over the telephone....
It looks to me like I would leave about 18 inches in the middle alone and get it bending more mid limb outward toward the tips. Maybe the area over both shop vacs. slow and steady now. You are about to have a shooter bow. You are getting some great advice. :)
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Here she is flipped around, if she still stiff on that limb Idk why I sanded that side down till my shoulder got sore and then some. I take it your talking about the orange shop vac pearl?
(http://www.imgur.com/tHVDTv4.jpeg)
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Getting real close now. Start at the mark that is 6" from each tip and work an area about 12" long. Do that on both limbs. Hit it hard, that area on both needs to catch up. Are seeing why you are removing wood where you are?
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I believe I see why, it goes from a nice bend around the handles and then staightens out into a minor curve. I'm sorta of see it, I more so understand it
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I believe I see why, it goes from a nice bend around the handles and then staightens out into a minor curve. I'm sorta of see it, I more so understand it
By Jove, I think he's got it!
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I don't know if you got the whole straight edge block under the bow thing, but that is what really helps me tiller a bow... I am no artist but some times a picture might help. If you really get where you can see the gap between that block and the belly of the bow, while the bow is being drawn, it will tell you exactly where the bow is bending too much and where it is not bending enough.
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I think I understand the straight edge, its just knowing how much wood to remove is what gets me, espcially since it harder to quantify how much a 60 grit piece of sand paper will take off
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That's just it, no one can tell you to take off 28/1000ths here and 47/1000ths over there....You just have to go slow as you chase the tiller. A few light scrapes followed by re-stringing and lightly excercising the bow for 20 or so pulls to 3/4 of the intended draw weight, repeat as necessary.
Sometimes you will go back to the same spot 18 times to take off just a little more, other times you will walk past it with a bit of sandpaper stuck to the bottom of your shoe and cause a hinge!!! Ever wonder why some of us in here are nuts? This wood working will do that to you, along with the addiction factor.
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No matter how many times I re-read that I still got a chuckle haha. Its funnier cus the more you think about it Tue truer you realise it is
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It pays to proceed with caution. That said, I alternate between a farrier's rasp and a sharp cabinet scraper. Sand paper comes later in the process for me. You have to go ahead and remove some wood and then, like JW said, exercise those limbs till it shows you it's new profile. Do that every time you remove any wood. It looks like it's gonna make a bow to me.
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Well that might be a problem, I haven't really been exercising it that much oopsie, maybe once I do that tomorrow it will start to look more even. I'm guessing by 3/4 draw weight he was referring to a tillering rig that's not some scrap 2x4s like mine is
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Nope, I mean draw it to 3/4ths of what you want the draw weight to be. For example I never pull a bow more than about 35-38 lbs if I am shooting for a final 50# draw weight. That way you will never overstrain the limbs with the early tillering, helps you prevent excessive set in the limbs.
Once you are close to final tillering then you will go ahead and work into that final draw weight and draw length.
Good luck, can't wait to see this one finished and shooting.
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Sadly my expiernce with bows means when I guess draw weight its like boldly locks, either to heavy, to easy or just right, so guessing 3/4 of my draw weight (im just blind guessing and aiming for 45# n this bow) is new impossible due tp my newbiesshness, would just pulling it down to my current tiller height 20x be enough?
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I use a 30" piece of 1x2 with another 5" wide piece screwed to one end to act as a foot. The whole thing is shaped like a very tall letter "T". Then I place the foot on a bathroom scale, hook the bowstring on the top of the 1x2 and pull the bow down while watching the scale read the weight in the little window.
It helps to make marks every few inches so you know about how far you are drawing the bow every time you pull it down.
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Oh yeah. If you are at 14" on a low braced bow pulling 20lbs, you have a little bit of wood yet to be removed. You can figure 2 - 3lbs of draw weight per inch. If you are heading for 28" draw that gives you 14 more inches to go. Your bow is pulling around 55lbs right now is my rough guess. You can't just hog wood off now. You really need your little tillering gizmo now and make sure you are removing wood from the really flat spots that aren't bending.
Your tiller tree will work fine. I would try to get it set up somewhere with some horizontal lines on a wall behind it - some sort of visual aid to show you that your limbs are bending evenly. And a word of advice - don't leave it drawn for more than a second or two once you get over 21 or 22 inches. It can do a real number on self bows, especially those that aren't shot in yet.
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Its getting wayyyyyyyyyyyy too complex now. Leave it simple, its a piece of wood and not a chemistry experiment. A cabinet scraper is what you need now and dont have. So continue with the sanding block as its your only bet. Im glad you are starting to see the bend in your limbs, thats all that matters. Forget the the math and the 3/4 and 2/3 and 75% stuff. After you have removed the wood mid way just draw the bow to 12-15" 15 times smoothly and slowly, the tree it again at 15". Forget its current draw weight, it doesnt matter.
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Squirrel Drums is right, I'm throwing more advanced level stuff at you when your goal right now is a working bow. "Softly, softly, catchee monkee" was something I read on this Forum long ago, still applies today.
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man reading about all that math was giving me a head ache ;D
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Yeah, but you get a headache figuring out change for a nickel when you buy penny candy! >:D
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All that other stuff will whack him right up side the head after a few of these simpler styles are under his belt. Ohhhhhhhhh trust me.....it'll happen wether he likes it or not.....this hobby has a way of sneaking up right in front of you and grabbing ya' by the nose.
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You are right about that. It has sure grabbed me. I guess I was just getting anxious for somebody else to be infected! Listen to Pearlie and maybe you won't end up so bitter bitterguy. :)
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Its getting wayyyyyyyyyyyy too complex now. Leave it simple, its a piece of wood and not a chemistry experiment. A cabinet scraper is what you need now and dont have. So continue with the sanding block as its your only bet. Im glad you are starting to see the bend in your limbs, thats all that matters. Forget the the math and the 3/4 and 2/3 and 75% stuff. After you have removed the wood mid way just draw the bow to 12-15" 15 times smoothly and slowly, the tree it again at 15". Forget its current draw weight, it doesnt matter.
please follow pearls advice
im pretty new at this myself and his help has takin me a lot farther than id thought id be right now
bitterguy
please privite message me your address
i got what you need!
kevin
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I order some white/gold for my final string today. And my current tillering string got frayed to the point where I couldn't untie my hitch and had to cut it off so now its to short. Is it a good idea to have just a general long tillering string that you twist up to fit whatever current bow you're working on? Ima make it a double Flemish loop, I need to practice making my loop anyways haha
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Any and all advice is always welcome. I just didnt want to get the cart in front of the horse. Sorry if I came across snotty, not my intentions.
I have a mess of 8-9 strings in varying lengths hanging on a screw by my tree. I grab whatever length I need at that moment. Then eventually narrow it down to a full brace length. Did you sand the string grooves and opposing edges nice and round so they dont wear or cut a string? Be sure to do that and DONT run the groove across the back. Trust that straight edge and tweak the tiller at 14". Get that gap even from 6" off center to 6" from the tips. Once you get it even go ahead and brace it up to 5" and pull it back slowly and gently to 12-14" at least 20 times. Then tree it at 16" and snap a pic.
Lastly, get with "khalverson" as he asked. He will do you right.
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A certain Kevin on the forum made a genorous offer to send me one of his extra scrappers. Should I wait until that gets here and continue on with that or should I keep using my sanding block ( that this wood appears to be immmune to sandpaper)
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Just wait for the scraper. I have one of Kevins scrapers as well. Its a good one. What is your first name anyway? I would rather call you by your name than nothing at all.
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Formely:Jason. But I go by Jason,Lank,Joe or Bitter depending on who im talking to, ill respond to anything thrown in my direction haha
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Jason it is. Wait for your scraper to arrive in a few days and you can wrap it up then. Better get those arrows started, your going to need them soon.
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I'm going to try and hand fletch aa couple, because I decided not to spend anymore money until I get back from my music department trip at Disney, which won't be till the 17th. What should I do in terms of arrow heads
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Hex nuts are cheap.
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I suggest buying a $3 bag of 125 grain 11/32 glue ons and some hot melt craft glue. You might have $5 into the project. As far as hand flething gos I suggest getting a few 1 1/2" x 6" pieces of paneling or 1/4" plywood to use a "clamp" to hold your feather in posistion while it dries. Super glue will work, but you need to be right the first time.
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Pearly, thank you so much for walking this lad thru the process. Even though I have several bows under my belt, I have really enjoyed watching this process. Look forward to seeing it done. I have soooo much to learn. Your process seems so systematic and I like that, even though I tend to eyeball a lot and its a bit more organic if you will. When I start trying to teach others my organicness does'nt translate into consistent action so once again good job and I'm waiting to see this thing shoot. Danny
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Thanks Danny, its all good fun for me. Ask my bow building buddys, I prefer to run my mouth more than my tools if somebody is willing to actually listen! Im a 100% organic builder as well. The only reason this build seems systematic is because he started with a squared up board stave, it allows for it. Im not sure I could do the same type of help along with a stave. Thats darn hard to explain in words.
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scraper shipped out today.
kevin
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Thanks Levin I'm lookedng forward to seeing it!
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Well, you've now disproved the title of this thread. You've gotten well started on this stave. I havew a strong sense you will be shooting this one in soon enough. Have you started thinking ahead enough to consider starting the next thread, "Can't get started in making arrows"? >:D
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Yeah, but you get a headache figuring out change for a nickel when you buy penny candy! >:D
your showing your age jdub, penny candy is a nickel
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Well, you've now disproved the title of this thread. You've gotten well started on this stave. I havew a strong sense you will be shooting this one in soon enough. Have you started thinking ahead enough to consider starting the next thread, "Can't get started in making arrows"? >:D
Just turn the title into a question and you get a tutorial!
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Are you going to name this bow Pearl?
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Haven't really thought about it but it sounds like a damn good idea to me
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Would the nocks, that either i think either you or seabass sent me work?
(http://i.imgur.com/nrdJcmk.jpg?1)
Also i went to the leathersmith to get some straps for a handle, how should i got about actually putting them onto the bow for a comfier handle
(http://i.imgur.com/4q8aLSP.jpg?1)
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Yup, those nocks are from me. They will work great with 11/32 shafts. The leather wrap handle is a breeze. We can burn that bridge when we get there.
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Do you have any plans for the fletching jig?
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http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,24583.0.html
this will work
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Once i make one of those out of carboard what do i do? does it matter where i put the feathers? Do i glue them then wrap some string around them? And how do i go about putting on the nocks?
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Alright! Kevin's cabinetnet scrapper came in (i take it I just drag one of the corners along the wood?) conveniently my spools for my final string came in too!
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Cool. You pull or push it across the surface of the bow scraping wood away. Give it a few practice strokes.
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I went back and saw that you had sent him some plastic nocks. I was decidedly dissappointed. Not because they were plastic, but because they weren't self nocks. I was dying to see how you had sent him a dozen self nocks!
The reason I was so interested was that I used a Skilsaw to put a kerf on an elm log and put it in the wrong place. If I could chop that kerf into small bits I could use them for pre-cut self nocks.
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Get yourself a string made for it, 2" shorter than the bow.
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I take it i wont use that string until im ready for full brace?
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You will use it right away. At 2" short you can brace your bow now. Did you get a feel for how scrapers work? They dont need much downward pressure, not like a rasp. Its is meant to scrape thin curls of wood off gradual and clean.
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I already made another string for it that I'm just twisting up, I just ordered the extra spools cus I'm starting to run low on the spool I was using was running out. I'm startlinglyng to get a feel for the scraper.
I have a question about temprature and climate though, I keep my bow inside (usually warm and humid) but I work in my dad garage(cold and whatever the humidity is outside) will this effect my bow at all?
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Not now. It will once you learn alot more. Little things arent worth sweating at this point. Once you get a few bows to hold together a whirlwind of possibilities will follow. Humidity, mass weight, working limb ratio and so on. For now just learning to manipulate wood is a good starter.
You can brace your bow and keep keep tillering if you want to. Just give it 12-15 pulls to 15" in between scrapings.
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Chris
I am impressed with how you are handling this help along !!
Very good job !
JW if the selfnocks come installed , I'll take a hundred !
Keep up the good work Pearly!
Guy
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This is where it stands at a 3" brace 14" draw
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f146/bigbratguy/IMAG0201.jpg)
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Midway on both limbs needs to move more. Take 15-18 scrapes in the center 10" of each limb
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Here's that
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f146/bigbratguy/IMAG0202.jpg)
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Most of the bend is happening in the handle area, go ahead and keep working the outer ends of the limbs.
To check your tiller on these bend-thru-the-handle bows, hold a cd up to the photo to check the curve. Move the cd in and out until you can see the flat spots. Looks like you are on your way!
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Scrape the dead center 10" of each limb enough to actually remove wood, dont be hesitant with your scraper. There shoudl be ample evidence on the floor when your done. Then brace it at 5" and pull it to 15-16" several times. Then tree it at 16".
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Alright I got the time to work on my bow some more and here she is as requested
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f146/bigbratguy/IMAG0208.jpg)
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Hawhaw! I just grabbed a coffee mug and upended it to check the arc of the bow with a circular object....and poured cold coffee all the way down my shirt!
It's all worth it because it looks like this bow is moving in the right direction. Maybe the tips are a little stiff, but not by VERY MUCH! Atta boy, Butterboy!
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looks pretty good to my inexperienced eyes
hows that scraper workin for ya?
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I used a disinfectent wipe bottle so i didnt spill anything on my self haha. Looks to me like the last bit of the left tip and about a third of the right limb.
The scraper is working excellent, thank you!
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Pul it to 18" and take a pic.
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Both midlimbs appear very flat, but the one on the righthand side more so than the other. Scrape those midlimbs! Three minutes of scraping on the left limb, four minutes on the right limb. Check tiller again.
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Worked on those mid limbs some more and then exercised it, hear it is at 18"
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f146/bigbratguy/IMAG0209.jpg)
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Too much bending in the handle area.
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I'm curious....what does the back outline look like (side taper)? I've view the whole thread and haven't seen a picture of the back.
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You need to hit midway much, much more than you have. Im not seeing any changes. Make some curls!
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Geez that was 75 on the left and 100 on the right. How much should I aim for?
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Then you arent getting any curls of wood. What des the dust on the floor look like? Flour? It should make curls of wood, varying lengths.
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I'm setting my bow up in the vice right before the wood I have to remove and I scrape wood off with one of the corners, am I not pushing hard enough?
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Well I spent some time fixing up my cabinet scraper technique and here she is with some more work, still at 18"
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f146/bigbratguy/IMAG0211.jpg)
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Seeing some improvement. Leave the handle section along again and go take a bit more off the outer thirds. Go easy, you are stalking the tiller. She's been hunted hard for a long time and is pretty skittish. Take your time.
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Your left limb is good, your right is stiff midway. Work that area, brace the bow at 5 1/2" and draw it back to 20" shooting it 10-12 times at that length. Then tree and snap a pic.
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Shooting or exercising it?
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Scrape the right side midway, brace it to 5 1/2 - 5 3/4" and shoot it at a 20" draw several times, at least 10-15. The tree it again and snap a pic.
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My fletching jig should come sometime this week(got another paycheck so I splugered a bit), how did you mark the spine and how do I orient the feathers/nock according to the spine?
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You should start another thread in the arrows section for this. It would be easier to seperate info for other users.
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Looks like someone better start practicing making arrows. Lol!! Lookin good!
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My fletching jig should come sometime this week(got another paycheck so I splugered a bit), how did you mark the spine and how do I orient the feathers/nock according to the spine?
Splugering is illegal in South Dakota and morally reprehensible. Your kind doesn't belong here.
On wood arrows, the spine is supposed to be measured so that you take advantage of the grain of the wood providing the most stiffness. Look at the end cuts on the arrows and the grain should looklike roughly parallel lines. The force applied to the arrow to get it to bend and measure spine stiffness is parallel to the grain. So when you cut your nocks into the arrow, you should be cutting across the grain of the wood. Since I make self nocks that's pretty easy to do. With glued on nocks, you will have to figure out how to make sure the nock is perpendicular to the grain of the arrows. Clear as mud?
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Like this?
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f146/bigbratguy/IMAG0213.jpg)
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Bingo!
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Alright I got a nock with some Rico cement drieng and one of pearls cedar shaft, now before I go and order any tips off of 3river what else should I get from there, these shipping fees are killing me!
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Ha! Where to begin!
This has been a nice follow along guys! Thanks for taking the time PD (and the gang.)
Scott
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Alright I got a nock with some Rico cement drieng and one of pearls cedar shaft, now before I go and order any tips off of 3river what else should I get from there, these shipping fees are killing me!
ya know if there's an archery shop around you can get all this stuff minus the shipping
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Ha! Where to begin!
This has been a nice follow along guys! Thanks for taking the time PD (and the gang.)
Scott
X2
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Ha! Where to begin!
This has been a nice follow along guys! Thanks for taking the time PD (and the gang.)
Scott
X2
x make me a bow someday and we'll be even Steven....;)
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I checked around and no where in my area sells traditional archery supplies :/
Here's my cart, anything else I should get?
http://www.3riversarchery.com/product.asp?i=4080X (http://www.3riversarchery.com/product.asp?i=4080X)
http://www.3riversarchery.com/product.asp?i=F221X (http://www.3riversarchery.com/product.asp?i=F221X)
http://www.3riversarchery.com/product.asp?i=3202 (http://www.3riversarchery.com/product.asp?i=3202)
http://www.3riversarchery.com/product.asp?i=4146X (http://www.3riversarchery.com/product.asp?i=4146X)
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That should get ya shooting. At some point you will need to give some thought to sealing your bow, but that can wait. Only reason I bring it up is cause Tru oil is a good product and you can get it from 3R's. There's lotsa other options out there though.
Scott
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Did I miss the finished bow?
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Did I miss the finished bow?
No, I'm on my last day of my Disney trip for band. There was so much bamboo in animal kingdom it was torturous not being able to bring it home with me
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Alright I got one of my field points to stay on(forgot to wash the machine oil off only one decided to stick on) shot it and bow do those arrows fly, it showed my dinky little cardboard box with newspaper who's boss. Here it is at 20"
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f146/bigbratguy/IMAG0393.jpg)
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real nice bend going on
congrats
Kevin
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Looking real good.
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I was looking through and noticed that i forgot to post my draw weight/length. Like menitioned earlier i can only guess on my # so im guessing about 45" and i pulled a tape measure like i was gonna shoot a bow and got it to about 29-30"
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You did good, nice bow you have there.
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It isnt there yet, thats just where i have to get it. How do i go about that?
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You drew that to 30"? :o
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How tall are you?
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6'2"
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you need the weight of the bow to really help you determine what your draw will be. if you just stretch out with a tape measure you will have a massive draw(mines 31.3 inches without any bow in hand.)
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Oh, and way to go playing in the band. Too many kids think its stupid and dorky and wont even try it. If they only knew how many chicks dudes in a band get when there 21 years old playing college bars.......hehehehehehehe......just sayin'. Learn all you can in HS band and take it with you to make some extra cash later.
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You will pull that bow 27" max. Anchor your draw hand with a finger in the corner of your mouth. By looking at the thickness and lenght Id say you probably have a 55# bow right now, at your draw length.
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For what it is worth bitterguy, I am 6'5" and draw around 28". Now if I stood up straight and shot olympic style that would be different, but that is not how I shoot selfbows.
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Haha thanks, I'm in the coolest part the drum line, lookin at lickin up a kit sometime soon too.Ill have to change my name to BITTER DRUMS ;P Would you say she's ready to finish and shoot or should I take her down the tree 2" at a time till I'm at 27" to check the tiller?
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I love drum lines they are the coolist!
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I love drum lines they are the coolist!
Thanks, I know it haha. Even cooler are indoor percussion ensembles. Finally get my skill on the tenor drums (quads) up hopefully I make the audition to march with em next year
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Good luck!
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Your tiller is fine, it wont change from 20" to 27". Be CAREFUL drawing it. Start off pulling it to 22" a few times then just carefully continue pulling farther back in increments until it breaks or your half a full draw bow!
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I'ma cut some arows to length and gonna do what you right what you said! Then I need help on the finishing and what not, I ordered some tru-oil with the rest of my stuff. Should I just measure my string at where it is now and try and make that the length of my string now? I remember seeing a how-to on how to make a yarn string silencer so I'm gonna start that and I'm gonna look on poorfolk bows on how to serve my string. The only questions I have now is that one about string length, how to finish it and how to make that leather wrap grip.
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Just be sure the draw weight is comfy for you. If it feels too heavy take a even scrapes off both limbs to lighten it up. A few pounds makes a huge difference. You get it pulling full draw several times and we can start on finishing it. Your string should be 3" shorter than the bow. Your brace should be in the 5.25-5.5" range.
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Pearl, you are a saint and a scholar. Props for paying it forward
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Thanks to all that helped the guy build his first bow. I haven't read all the posts but thats what it seems. I wanted to be able to build bows when I was in high school and gave up cause I couldn't get help or find good resources.
Pearly you da man
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I ran into a problem while testing the bow for that draw weight. I need a different target! The kept slinging my arrows through the newpaper stuffed pizza box and the were hitting the cinderblocks of my garage wall(even put some dents in the cinder block. I didnt notice until all the points had popped off and one of them snapped sideways with some of the shaft still in it >:( fortunatly the arrows wernt cut to length yet. My old man recomended putting a sheet of osb between my target and the wall. Would the do the trick, if not how should i make a target that isnt ripped to shreds by my bow?
Edit: also, how should I get that part of the shaft out of my point?
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Stuff your box with old clothing, it will stop your arrows. Plastic grocery bags work good to. Glad it hasnt broke.
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I used to get plastic grocery bags from the recycle bins at local grocery stores and shove them in a box or burlap sack. now I get shrink wrap from work. When the box is all shot up just get a new box and reuse the plastic.
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like said get a bunch of those plastic babs and stuff a dogfood bag full, then I wrap with stretch wrap, when it gets all shot up stuff it in another bag, bub
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When stuffed good and tight into a cardboard box, those plastic bags/shrinkwrap/etc will also stop broadheads! Foam block targets fail rapidly when being shot with broadheads! All you need to do is replace the box now and then, like RPS3 says!
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You said to make my string 3" shorter than my bow but with one loop in the nock and the bow straightened out I have about 6" to the too of my bow for my tillering string to brace my bow at 5.5"
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Stretch it out very good. When you have the bottom loop attached and the bow is rested the top loop should be about 2-3" away from you top groove.
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is it b-50, and how much did you twist it?
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It is indeed b-50 and quite a bit
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I made a target using a box and Great Stuff foam. It is used to seal cracks and stuff. It took several cans because I chose a box that was too big but it stopped my 65# Compound bow shooting around 300fps. Not sure how long it would last but you could fill in any holes with more foam.
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you should be able to untwist it a little, srting it and it will stretch, then just keep twisting till it hits the brace height you want
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you should be able to untwist it a little, srting it and it will stretch, then just keep twisting till it hits the brace height you want
It's already at the brace height I need. But its just shorter than what pearl says it should be
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The brace height should be all that matters. I think PD was trying to get you in the ball park.
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Exactly. Your brace should be pretty good at 5.5" for now. Did you start drawing it more yet?
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Exactly. Your brace should be pretty good at 5.5" for now. Did you start drawing it more yet?
I got it to that 27" max draw. I'm prob gonna shave off a couple pounds to make it smoother and easier though
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Start sanding it with 80 grit, then 150 grit, then 220 grit, then 0000 steelwool. That will take away a few pounds. It only takes 1-3# less to feel much better. Did the 27" full like your full draw?
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I didnt get to sanding it yet. I need a bigger target though haha. I'm not sure if its me or the bow, but from about 5 yards away i have to aim about 1-2 feet down to hit where i want to hit. Due to some unfortunate gust of wind and me figuring out that i had to aim low I broke off another 2 tips, im gonna need a factory to keep up with the amount im breaking ::)
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I like my nock point 3/8 to 1/2 above center, where is yours set? I remember closing one eye and "aiming" when first starting out with a stickbow. With time and practice, you will get better, and where you aim and where you hit will actually be the same spot. How bout some pictures of you at full draw.
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Meaure to center and make a mark 2" above that. That mark is where your arrow rests on your hand. Shoot with one finger above the arrow and two below. Your knock point goes ABOVE the arrow. Your arrow should be about 1/16" above horizontal at the knock end. The arrow and string should be almost 90 degrees to each other.
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Here is two pics of me at full draw(without the advice stated earlier
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f146/bigbratguy/IMAG0396.jpg)
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f146/bigbratguy/IMAG0397.jpg)
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look's like a bow ;), nice job, bub
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Looks great, congratulations. I look forward to getting a hickory stave in your hands, might even talk me into parting with a piece of osage too. Let me know when you are ready.
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I'm lookin forward to it rps, just got to wait until we get some actual spring weather! And i'm not quite done yet, gotta get her all nice and shiny and give her a leather handle and her own string complete with serving and some of them fancy yarn string silencers
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One last thing before I name, sign and finish it. You said not to touch the back, is it okay for me to sand the back for the finish?
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I didnt get to sanding it yet. I need a bigger target though haha. I'm not sure if its me or the bow, but from about 5 yards away i have to aim about 1-2 feet down to hit where i want to hit. Due to some unfortunate gust of wind and me figuring out that i had to aim low I broke off another 2 tips, im gonna need a factory to keep up with the amount im breaking ::)
Next you will be learning to make you own arrows out of red osier cause arrow shafts can be expensive. ::)
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Bow looks nice, congrats.
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yes sand the whole bow with at least 220
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Would sanding it 80 -150 -220 -0000 steel wool. Like I did the front work?
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Keep in mind the purpose of sanding the back is just to smooth it out. So if you get aggressive with the 80 grit you could remove quite a bit of wood, and you don't want that. Just take it easy on the back and go to it.
Sounds like you got this bow finished, Congrats!! Now, for the next one... ;D
Scott
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Ya'll just kept me entertained this morning with my coffee! I read through the whole thread! How exciting to get the knowledge and support from the guys on this site!! I am looking forward to seeing how you dress up your bow in the final pic :) my hat is off to you gentlemen for your patience and help!!! Congrats on your first bow!!!
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That's a good looking bow right there!
I've been following this thread since it started, and this thread is a perfect example of how a new bow maker can come in ask questions, get answers and FOLLOW the advice given. And get a very nice bow out of listening to experience.
Not hearing 'well I'm experimenting' just bc you don't want to listen, was a nice change :)
Very well done bitter! Iam truly impressed.
Hats off to you gentlemen who took the time to assist this fellow.
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Outstanding! Way to go "not so bitter anymore guy"! :)
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Letting the belly coat dry up now.
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f146/bigbratguy/IMAG0403.jpg)
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Get yourself and EXTRA fine Sharpie for your next bow. They will be darker and slightly thicker lines, you will dig it.