Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: dbb on July 19, 2011, 12:33:53 pm

Title: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.(More picsFinished for now)
Post by: dbb on July 19, 2011, 12:33:53 pm
Ran into a young couple that was clearing up their yard,and of course i offered to help if i could have some of the wood >:D
Wasnt too much to salvage but i got this prunus,it almost  looks like a birdcherry but not a perfect match.
The girl said the previous owner said it was some kind of wild cherry.
They are goin to take down an old apple tree later and promised to give me a call so i can come and "help" again ;D
I got home glued it up pealed and split it ,it looked like a dna molecule :o. I might get 2 staves out of it but i have to really learn how to bend wood.
Question is should i steam it and strap it down when green or try when its cured? Making firewood isnt an option unless i fail,this is a opportunity to learn.
Here is a pic of one of the staves,it almost makes gstonebergs look straight ;)
(http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr17/dbb1963/Bows/DSC_0025.jpg)

/Mikael
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: BowJunkie on July 19, 2011, 12:54:10 pm
WOW.
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: Pat B on July 19, 2011, 01:08:19 pm
WOW again!  That is a challanging stave.  :o   Wet wood lends itself to wet heat(steam) and infact the steam will help force moisture out of a green stave. With that much twist you will have to work it a little at a time, maybe concentration of the worst twist first and get the stave to a managable state so you can clamp and steam it to do a final straightening.  I would seal the back with a few coats of shellac. Shellac can take the heat and moisture of steaming batter than other sealers.
  "DNA" or "Double Helix" would be good names for the finished bow...although by the time you get a shootable bow from this stave you may have a few "choice" words that would apply.  >:D
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: dbb on July 19, 2011, 01:13:19 pm
Oh,i have no doubt i will be able to write a "Lexicon of foul language " when/if im done with this.
But the main thing is i will learn more from it than a truckload of perfect staves ;)

/Mikael
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on July 19, 2011, 01:14:18 pm
Too many trees around for me to even want to get that mad!
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: dbb on July 19, 2011, 01:19:37 pm
Too many trees around for me to even want to get that mad!
Yeah thats one of the things,where i live we have birch,fir,pine and some more birch unless you count the ornamental trees.
The thing is people get a bit cranky when you cut down trees in parks and backyards ;D

/Mikael
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: blackhawk on July 19, 2011, 02:59:34 pm
IMHO and honestly that's firewood. Waaaaay too much twist.
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: toomanyknots on July 19, 2011, 03:11:00 pm
"Too many trees around for me to even want to get that mad!"

LOL Dbb, your one of those masochistic bowyers I see.
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: Pat B on July 19, 2011, 03:22:20 pm
Even if this stave doesn't make a successful bow it will teach you a whole lot about wood and it's limitations. I would definately tackle a stave like this just for the experience.   You may even be able to make a shootable bow without too much untwisting. A bit of twist isn't much of a problem in self bows like it is in lam bows.
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: dbb on July 19, 2011, 03:24:39 pm
"Too many trees around for me to even want to get that mad!"

LOL Dbb, your one of those masochistic bowyers I see.
I thought all bowyers are...its just a matter of how much so ;D

IMHO and honestly that's firewood. Waaaaay too much twist.
I actually agree,and it was my first thought when i saw the twist.But then again,if i make a shooter out of this i will have learnt alot..and if i dont... i have learnt how firewood looks :laugh:

/Mikael
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: gstoneberg on July 19, 2011, 03:34:08 pm
Wow, that has nearly a 270 degree twist??! :o  DNA is right!  I cut them up for firewood at 90 degrees.   I would not know where to start on that one.  That's not true, you conquer crooked wood by picking the worst bends and tackling them.  Continue doing that on lesser and lesser bends until you can live with the result.  Normally  there'll be a couple spots you can get a lot of the bend out in one shot.  You might want to try to rough the bow's shape out before starting so it's easier to bend.  Pat's right as always and I love Double Helix as a bow name too.  If it were mine (and I didn't cut it up for firewood)  I'd also try to steam out the worst bends until I could clamp it to a workbench.  Then I'd let it dry like that.  Once fully dry, I'd make a full length form, perhaps making a recurve or D/R longbow.  Then I'd use dry heat and work from one end to the other doing both heat treating and bending in a single step, clamping it flat against the form, similar to what Pat did with his elm recurve.

But in truth, that'd be smoking wood if it were mine.  You pull this off and I'll do my darndest to send you an osage set of billets.  Might have to take up a collection for shipping... :-\  and they might not be straight... >:D O:)

Good luck.
George
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: Del the cat on July 19, 2011, 04:12:14 pm
I think you are doomed to frustration with that one.
Even if you get it to look straight, I'll bet you a fiver it won't draw straight.
Del
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: aznboi3644 on July 19, 2011, 04:13:34 pm
my first sapling  I cut was twisted just like that...I didn't think it would make a bow.  But I just kept tillering even with the horrible twist but the bow is tillered out to 20".  I shoved it in the corner until I pick it up again in a few years lol.
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: dbb on July 19, 2011, 04:41:49 pm
Whatever happens,if i make a bow out of this or not(i sure hope i will)adds to my experience.
So its really a win-win situation.
And on the upside of things,if i make a bow from this,i dont think i will balk at any stave thats not rotten :laugh:

/Mikael
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: lowell on July 19, 2011, 05:07:14 pm
I see the possibility of an artistic barber pole ;)...but good luck making it into a bow!! 8)
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: George Tsoukalas on July 19, 2011, 05:45:01 pm
Tomato stake wood. :)Jawge
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: dbb on July 19, 2011, 06:03:33 pm
Awww...Im dissapointed,with that much twist i think it deserve to be vampire stake.. ;D

/Mikael
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: soy on July 19, 2011, 07:37:32 pm
HOLY S%@#!!! I would love to see that drill bit turned into a bow, good luck,not shure im mentally strong enough for a task that demanding  :o
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: dbb on July 19, 2011, 08:05:36 pm
HOLY S%@#!!! I would love to see that drill bit turned into a bow, good luck,not shure im mentally strong enough for a task that demanding  :o
The mentality i have,its the skill that is doubtful ;)

/Mikael
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: RyanY on July 19, 2011, 08:14:46 pm
WOW! I'm just impressed that you want to try and make a bow from that. Looking at it, I bet you could make a bendy handle bow with stiff outer limbs, that way you won't have to worry about twist from the outer limbs if they were working. Good luck!
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: Sidewinder on July 20, 2011, 04:22:18 am
I would have to say that you are either clinically insame or unemployed  with too much time on your hands ,which in either case makes it good therapy. To which I say " if your froggy, then jump".
 Me.... I'm thinking  a stave like that could be dried and thinned downed and cut up and turned into windchimes. It has a nice twist to it that lends its self to display and the banging together in a low d flat might make it have dual appeal. Gitter done. Lol.    Danny
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: mikekeswick on July 20, 2011, 05:04:07 am
There is a bow in there crying to be unveiled! Go for it....I would
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: dbb on July 20, 2011, 10:25:50 am
After round 1 i think im ahead on points after relentless work on the opponents midsection ;D
I will post pics as i go along for all to see my shame/fame ;D
This was done steaming for a 70-80 min and using gstonebergs tecnique with clamps and weights,thanks George for showing that  :)
(http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr17/dbb1963/Bows/DSC_0028.jpg)

/Mikael
 
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: gstoneberg on July 20, 2011, 10:47:25 am
Lookin good.  Lots of progress on that first bending.  You're gonna whip this one into shape.

George
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: triggerfinger on July 20, 2011, 11:08:14 am
Its come a long way...with that said your still crazier than a skin diving eskimo to wanna do it.
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: majsnuff on July 20, 2011, 11:13:26 am
WOW!!! if you get a shootable bow out of that, email me with your address, I will ship you a Yew stave and pay the shipping.
God bless.
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: dbb on July 20, 2011, 11:46:20 am
WOW!!! if you get a shootable bow out of that, email me with your address, I will ship you a Yew stave and pay the shipping.
God bless.
Not that dont want some yew,but you might wanna rethink that,i live in sweden...you may have to put your home as security to pay the shipping :laugh:

/Mikael
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: jpitts on July 20, 2011, 12:24:09 pm
WOW.....
can't wait to see the next pics....
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: Bow Nut on July 20, 2011, 05:39:08 pm
looking good keep that up and you will get a shooter out of it.
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: crooketarrow on July 21, 2011, 12:06:10 am
 There's a bow in every peice of wood. It's just how bad you want to let it out. I'm sorry but your bows only as good as the wood you start with. I've built lots of bows where the stave made me do this or that. Now I pick the stave and what I want to do. I LIKE MY BOWS TO HAVE NICE CLEAN LINES. So  cut tree's that are nice and clean staves so I end up with nice clean bows.
   I 'd never stop anyone from following what they wish to do. But I only see alot of work in that stave and I only see you setting yourself up for failure but good luck.
 
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: JW_Halverson on July 21, 2011, 12:16:05 am
It would be great if you had a pair of those staves.  Turn them both into bows and name them "Watson" and "Crick".

 >:D
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: toomanyknots on July 21, 2011, 12:17:59 am
I know like 3 people have already posted "WOW"...

..so I will post "WOAH" cause that is what I said when I looked at the first pic and then the new one! Jeez, just the bottom end to go now and your good to go, right? Very good job.
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: dbb on July 21, 2011, 06:06:19 am
@ crooketarrow I have the same taste in bows,guess i still suffer from FGsickness to some degree.
But im new to this and the main thing for me at this point is to learn,and even if i fail to make a bow from this i will learn of limits with wood.
That is NOT a waste of time however the outcome!

@ JW_Halverson Haha,I do have another stave from this tree,but its so full of knots and branches that i classified it as "firewood" :o

/Mikael
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: dbb on July 21, 2011, 12:11:08 pm
I have been a bit busy :D and caught up in this helix stave of mine,but here are the pics from round 2 and 3.
Alot of steaming and sweating have been done.
When i tried to "untwist the wood at one critical point i felt it would break if i tried more,so i did something unorthodox.
I put it in my bathtub and poured boiling water over the part that wouldnt cooperate then i let it soak for a while.
Dont know if it was stupid.or if i ruined it totally...but it looks ok enough.
This is after second steaming
(http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr17/dbb1963/Bows/DSC_0030.jpg)
And this is after the soak and steam.That binding in the middle look a bit like japanese bondage :laugh:
(http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr17/dbb1963/Bows/DSC_0031-1.jpg)

/Mikael
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.(More pics round 2-3)
Post by: beetlebailey1977 on July 21, 2011, 12:28:12 pm
it is certainly getting...there good luck.  I am cheering for you on this one.
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.
Post by: jonathan creason on July 21, 2011, 12:49:07 pm
And this is after the soak and steam.That binding in the middle look a bit like japanese bondage :laugh:

And how do you know what that looks like?  ;D ;)

You're making far more progress on this stave than I ever imagined possible.  Great job, I hope it turns into a shooter for you!
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.(More pics round 2-3)
Post by: gstoneberg on July 21, 2011, 04:05:12 pm
Looking better all the time.  Now, the waiting begins...  Hope you have another stave to play with so this one can dry awhile. ;)

George
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.(More pics round 2-3)
Post by: Gus on July 21, 2011, 06:50:42 pm
Have you considered using wedges under the rope to tighten things up while its hot?

-gus
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.(More pics round 2-3)
Post by: toomanyknots on July 21, 2011, 06:54:40 pm
Very nicely done. Looks like you got it nice and straight, if after it is dry and you remove the binding it stays in place. Looks great. That was a really great steam bending job.
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.(More pics round 2-3)
Post by: dbb on July 21, 2011, 07:12:59 pm
I think i have to steam it one more time unless im very lucky,just to fix string alignment
 
Have you considered using wedges under the rope to tighten things up while its hot?
-gus
I got it flat against the board so it wouldnt do any good unless i put the wedges under the stave at one side to "overbend" it a bit.
I have no doubt this stave will spring back a bit  when realeased >:D
Looking better all the time.  Now, the waiting begins...  Hope you have another stave to play with so this one can dry awhile. ;)
George
Not to worry,i have lots to do,a set of arrow, quiver, tab and armguard for my nephew.And i got a delivery of 2 nice hickoryboards today :)
And how do you know what that looks like?  ;D ;)
:-[ We all have our kinks and quirks :laugh:

/Mikael
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.(More pics round 2-3)
Post by: mikekeswick on July 21, 2011, 08:00:15 pm
Well done so far.
I wouldn't bother to try and untwist anymore now - remember heat weakens the wood to a degree.
As for the string alingment don't worry about it. Leave the handle full width until it's ready for it's first stringing, string it and see where the string is. Then shape the handle towards the string. I've done this on staves where the string was miles outside the handle and it works great and it will be yet another bit of character!
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.(More pics round 2-3)
Post by: Gus on July 21, 2011, 09:40:24 pm
Sorry had my 5 month old in one hand trying to type with the other earlier and he was not having it...

I was talking about Driving wedges under the ropes to tighten the whole package up.

But if you are getting her tight by hand I guess that would not be needed.

Regards,

-gus
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.(More pics round 2-3)
Post by: dbb on July 21, 2011, 09:46:42 pm
Sounds like a good advise mikekeswick.
I have left it as wide and thick as i could get away with just to have some possibility to adjust things.
Well now its just wait and see what happens when i release it  in a couple of days.
@ Gus That sounds like multitasking  :) I understood what you meant,guess its hard to see that there is no play between stave and board on the pic.

/Mikael
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.(More pics round 2-3)
Post by: Sidewinder on July 23, 2011, 12:29:51 pm
Well I must say that you have made alot more progress than I thought possible. If you make a shooter out of this one I think you should get an award or something. Keep up the good work and I am really looking forward to the outcome.   Danny
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.(More pics round 2-3)
Post by: H Rhodes on July 26, 2011, 12:05:22 pm
I am no expert, but most of the fruit woods tend to dry on the brittle side.... I would steam and bend while it is green, and try to take the least amount of twist out that you can get by with....  Side nocks and be happy if the string runs anywhere close to the middle of the middle of the stave.   Go for it!  I want to see a bow named "Double Helix" shoot.  It could be a real character.  Good luck.
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.(More pics round 2-3)
Post by: dbb on July 30, 2011, 04:54:24 pm
Ok,i realesed the stave today and it behaved surprisingly good.
It flexed back a bit but less than expected.
Now its just a question what to make of it... well heres a pic or two.(the one beside it is a mantra style i roughed out today,was inspired by ryoon4690s red oak..but mine is only 70")
(http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr17/dbb1963/Bows/DSC_0034.jpg)
(http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr17/dbb1963/Bows/DSC_0036.jpg)

/Mikael
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.(More pics round 2-3)
Post by: mikekeswick on July 31, 2011, 09:27:18 am
Well it's certainly a lot straighter than it was!
From what I can see the handle area is looking pretty thin? If it's less than 1 1/4 inch i'd probably go for a bendy handle design.
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.(More pics round 2-3)
Post by: soy on August 01, 2011, 05:08:25 am
Keep fighting the good fight, you are gaining ground. I am already impressed!!!  ;)
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.(More pics round 2-3)
Post by: Gus on August 02, 2011, 02:16:16 pm
Yes Sir, Looking Good.

Starting to look like a nice bendy-snakey stave.

-gus
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.(More pics round 2-3)
Post by: dbb on August 12, 2011, 05:51:51 pm
Guess it was time to wrestle with the helix again  ;D
I have shaped it a bit oversize to have some margin to adjust it later,it starts to bend nice and straigt so far.
Its a bit weird as the snakey limb is straight and the straight one is deflexed ::)
I really hope i get a shooter out of this now,would be kinda anticlimactic to break it in the finetillering... ;)
Latest pics.
(http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr17/dbb1963/Bows/2011-08-12180017.jpg)
(http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr17/dbb1963/Bows/2011-08-12180125.jpg)

/Mikael
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.(More pics round 2-3)
Post by: Gus on August 12, 2011, 06:19:32 pm
Looking Good!!!

Keep up the Good Work!  :)

-gus
Title: Re: A challenging piece of wood,and a question.(More pics round 2-3)
Post by: dbb on August 19, 2011, 06:08:46 pm
I actually got this corkscrew to shoot today and better than i hoped,its a bit weird how it bends but it "feels "straight strangely enough.
Its 66" ntn 42#@28" 2" at the fades and 1/2" at the tips,it have a bit of handshock but not really bad,and its a bit too stiff in the lower limb.
I will fix her up later ,but the primary goal is met as i put 50 arrows in the target today "Yay!"and i got two more bows in the making that needs my time atm.
Here are the pics
(http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr17/dbb1963/Bows/2011-08-19205711.jpg)
(http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr17/dbb1963/Bows/DSC_0046.jpg)
(http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr17/dbb1963/Bows/DSC_0043.jpg)

/Mikael