Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: half eye on May 31, 2010, 07:24:50 pm
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hey fellas,
Few days ago I posted some NA bows, and amoungst 'em was an Inuit that needed it's bridges and cables. Here it is.
49" overall, white oak (Barrel stave stock) the bow weighed 38# @ 25" w/o the cable and 48# @ 25 with 3 turns on the cable. The bow has an easy 27" draw length. The pics have the same 28" overall arrow as in the other post.
The bow shoots very quietly, I guess thats because of the cariboo skin under the cable and the bridge block wrap under that part. This thing was a pain in the rear...it will be some time before I do another one.
Anyway got the regular photos and a second bunch of close up shots....the cables are made, secured and all that without knots of any kind. Everything is intertwined, wrapped , half hitched or soldier hitched. This includes the binding that hold the twist in the cable (grip center) the cables are one piece and everything else is one piece. The hide is not glued down and neither are the bridge blocks.
Feel free to let me know about any screw-up's, and enjoy the photo's.
Rich
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here's the close-up's
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What a great bow!! Wow! 30% increase in draw weight with just a couple turns of the windlass! That's incredible!!
Love the lashing pattern, how did you work that out??
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Ken,
I used a book that Ken75 was kind enough to give me. "North American Bows, Arrows, and Quivers" by Otis Tufton Mason who wrote it while curator of the Smithsonian in 1893. They broke the Eskimo natives into 3 groups....Arctic type, Southern type, and Western type. There are at least 22 different types of cable layouts with some overlapping in style and some showing 3 or more styles on one bow. I picked a combination of two Southern types.
The Southern types tend to be longer bows about 38" to 50" and single bows, The Western tend to resemble the Asiatic type bows where the bows are spliced and the limb tips are similair to siahas or horn types. Anyway, my bow was a solid self bow of wood so I went with the western "bridged layout" and the cable system came from specimens collected at Bristol Bay and Nuniviak Island. The trademark of these types is "extra starnds let into the cable by means of any number of half hitches passing around the bow and into the cable".....the second trademark is that the twin cables are continuous around each knock in a contiuous strand form two cables which are woven into a single "great" cable.
Sorry for the long winded explanation but thats where the pattern(s) came from.
Rich
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Rich
Beautiful bow!
Personally, The way you craft primitive archery,....I think you were born bout 200 years too late... :o
Now wait a minute, how old are you anyway. Naw, you couldn't be 245 Years young.LOL ;D ::) ;D
Ron
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Another very cool Native American bow Rich. I really enjoy seeing what you will make next. I believe you are breaking all the laws of archery as far an overall length vs. draw length...and using boards to make them all. 8) Very well done!
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Rich, I feel the same as Pat. Your bow is a beauty and that is a great looking full draw pic too!
Rich
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Wow Rich very nice craftsmanship! I have that cordage for u and will send that out along with the rest of goods! Looks like that turned out well! Talk to u soon my friend.
Russ
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I certainly concur with evryone else! Inspires me to make one of thos myself...I have that same book too! ;)
What are you using for cordage? Artificial sinew?? or the real thing??
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Hey Eastern,
It's artificial.....did some digging and some of these bows would take (60 yards) of braided sinew to complete an Arctic type, and maybe 45 yards for a Southern type..........That's a whole lot of sinew. Also I believe that after contact with the whalers and sealers they probably would have used some type of twine cordage either from trade or ship wrecks. I don't think a guy would be too far off to use sail mending twine or upholsters twine.
Hey Okie......I'll have ya to know that I'm 239 and holding. There is a lot to be said for doing somethings the "old" way like smoking and greasing bow wood, and I noticed that while using rocks to sand and shape the bows you can actually "feel" whats going on with the bow wood....can't explain but ya can physically feel whats going on....it's pretty cool actually. I also do all my tillering with the "under-tension" system....just use progessively longer sticks, check the bend by eye, and every once in a while pull the bow to "feel the weight"....worked for them and it works good for me.
Thanks again for the nice comments, but they got the designs down....not me.
Rich
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Wow! My year and a half on PA and that is the first example of that design and technology I've seen. I've been looking at those for some time and wondering, and finally, here is an example. Your the man!
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dang nice bow rich , its all been said great work
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I can't help but wonder, how long the backstrap sinew from a Whale or Elephant Seal would be? Indigenous people of Alaska were know to hunt those creatures. If those animals even have the kind of sinew that Deer, Elk, Buffalo, Caribou, and such have along their backs. If so it would sure make twisting up one of those cables less labor intensive. Very wet in Alaska, so I wonder what they did to keep moisture from getting to the cables, since they used them, they must have some solution?
I really like what you did there, and the historical questions that you have got me thinking about. Now I just need to know. :D
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I have a couple questions. I'm wondering about the bridge purpose. It is to raise the tension so that the outer limbs aren't bending as much. From the full draw it seems that bow is doing more bending in the first half of the limbs. Are the bridges responsible?
Also, that bracing piece that looks like you've put on the belly side of the handle (Book17 picture). Is that on the back or belly? Just to reinforce the handle as it's bending a great deal there?
Did you make the cable as an endless loop and then wrap it down with once consecutive piece of cord just hitching it in along the way and then wrapping around the cable?
Very interesting Rich...
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Nice bow,you come up with more cool stuff. :)
Pappy
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Very interesting to see this sort of unusual bow design.
Great work as usual, nice detailed post and pics.
If I'm allowed to make an observation, I think the bridges could be much slimmer as they are in compression, but I'm sure you've made 'em that way for a reason (probably authenticity, so forgive my impertinent suggestion).
Del
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Lombard, I think they greased the stuff out of the sinew cables and the "rub pad" below the cable, that seal oil will about stick to anything.
Parnell, I believe the bridge is prevent the ends from snapping off if you tension the cable too much, and in draw it does prevent the recurves from working. That little whitewood piece is on the belly and serves as a wear plate for the sinew that holds the twist in the main cable, there is a lot of pressure trying to straighten themselves out. I ran the first strip of sinew from knock to knock untill I had two cables of 10 strands each, and fed the loose end into the strands sort of like a flemish twist string. Then a second very long continuous strand (they used a a braided sinew cord) you could also call it plaited. Twist the end into one of the cable bundles and start wrapping the two together with a spiral wrap, when you get to the first limb wrap (or any of them) wrap the line around the llimb around the cable, back around the limb and back to the cable and cinch down with either a half hitch or soldier hitch then just keep on truckin. I spent more time pulling that long %$@!*@ thru all the turns than tying....it gets a lot better by the time ya get to the grip.
Pappy, ya got to blame that Georgia Ken dude, he sent me the damned book, next thing ya know I'm in over my head ;)
Hey Del, no such a thing....I only have one authentic pic of a bow with a bridge block and it looked pretty big to me. I made 4 sets of them and settled on these. I was affraid that if they were too thin (contact with the limb) they would create a problem from the pressure on them being concentrated on too small of an area. So that's why I made them broad with the corners well rounded. One other thing is the overall weight of the bow....it's pretty heavy compared to a small NA flat bow.....well any all wood bow for that matter.
Hope I came up with some type of answer for all of you....remember this is my first one so mostly I had to go with pics, descriptions and such and don't know any Eskimo type people......no warrantee, express or implied ;D
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Congrats. on another pretty authentic native bow, very interesting, must have been a challenge to work that one out, well done Rich
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Cool work, I like what you created!
Its still my idea to make such a bow, but I`m afraid of these bindings.
Regards Uwe
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You work is always interesting. Nice job on that bow.
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I love it when I log on and see you posted another bow. ;D. That is one cool bow. It's the first time I've seen one except in books in the form of drawings. I hope you put this one in for BOM. As always, I'm impressed by how far you can get a short piece of wood to bend. Especially from boards. Keep up the good work.
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Rich
You do know that "200 years too late" comment was a compliment.
You honestly keep me inspired!!!
Ron
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Man that is sharp! 8) But how do you twist the cable to raise or lower the poundage? I didn't see any place to insert, a rod, or windlass type device to tighten the cable.
Wayne
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Hey Okie, that was a 39 and holdin zinger back at ya....I know what you are saying, sometimes wish I could go back. If I could I'd like to set down with the old boys and find out all the whys and what-for's.....The wondering "why" is what keeps the fire in my old belly.
Stickbender, dead center in the cable/grip there is a wrap that keeps the cables from unwinding.....if you want to tension the cable ya undo the wrap, and they used a flat piece of Ivory (looks like a tounge depressor w/ little hooks on both ends) you insert that through the middle of the cable, give it a half turn....slide it through to the other end and turn it again....keep it up till it's as tight as ya want....then reinsert the end of the winding wrarp through the cable a couple of time cinch it up tight and take out the winder and then ya need a needle to keep going through and around the cable/grip till it's wove back into the main cable. You cant believe how tight that thing gets....I had a HARD time getting the needle to pass under the cable let alone through it ( had to use a wood block to push the blunt needle through the cable.
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Half Eye, I dug out that book you mentioned last night, and boy you did some studying to figure out those wraps! :o
Your bow looks very cool and deadly! Is that just a white oak stave? quarter sawn? no backing?? (other than cables of course).
How many strands of sinew for the center cables? Did you finish the bow with grease or linseed oil?
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Eastern,
The white oak is quartersawn, it's originally cut to send out for barrell staves, so it's just basically a "board" (vertical grain) There is no backing....the hide thats under the middle 1/3 of the cable is just laid in loose and wrapped over. When I wrapped the cable strands around the knocks I went 10 complete revolutions.....so it looked like two 10 strand cables. The finish is the stuff I made from fat + spruce pitch+ very little candle wax. I been using that on my last 9-10 bows and I really like what it does for the wood itself.....dont know if fills the pores or what but the difference it makes in springiness, lack of set, and just about everything "good for bows" is not to be believed.....I wont use anything else from now on....can ya tell I like it :D
Rich
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Very nice bow. Is it an exact copy of an Inuit bow?
There was a young man that used to come to the PA message board many years ago. He posted a bow that he cable backed, I think he used linen for the cable, but he put bridges all the way down the back. It really boosted the draw weight
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im dying to see whats next
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Eastern,
The white oak is quartersawn, it's originally cut to send out for barrell staves, so it's just basically a "board" (vertical grain) There is no backing....the hide thats under the middle 1/3 of the cable is just laid in loose and wrapped over. When I wrapped the cable strands around the knocks I went 10 complete revolutions.....so it looked like two 10 strand cables. The finish is the stuff I made from fat + spruce pitch+ very little candle wax. I been using that on my last 9-10 bows and I really like what it does for the wood itself.....dont know if fills the pores or what but the difference it makes in springiness, lack of set, and just about everything "good for bows" is not to be believed.....I wont use anything else from now on....can ya tell I like it :D
Rich
Did you put a reflex in the limbs under the bridges with heat before wrapping? Just to have something like that on display would be a great converstion piece....then to actually use it to hunt would be even cooler! I'm sure those wrappings were a pain, but the end result is awe inspiring.
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Nice bow, Rich... Also great article in PA. Very informative. :)
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This bow had the curves steamed in prior to finishing the cables.
Here is a museum photo of an authentic Artic Inuit bow that has a less complicated cable system.....I'm build it now, but thought ya might like to see that all of the originals were not necessarily a weavers nightmare. So here's the pic. I'm making this model from ash. The original bow is 52" overall and 1-1/2" wide. Notice that it has a palm swell at the grip.
Rich
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Another nice one Rich,
Keep it up,f
Jeff
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Well,l I certainly wish you luck with this new bow my friend!
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Can't wait to see it, as with all of the ones you do!
Mark
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Amazing Rich! Going outside the circle is a great way to bringing in some new ideas and that is one reason why I like your work! Take care and talk to you soon!
Russ
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Rich, I am impressed. A couple of questions. Did you permanently attach the bridge blocks? also, Did you steam the siyahs into their shape??
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Richard Im gonna kidnap u and turn u into a bow making machin!!! Well done my friend!
Russ
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Swamp,
The bridge blocks are layed in "dry" when the two main cables get tensioned up ya cant move them buggers. As for the steaming ....ya I steam bend all my wood, do it by hand and "eye-ball" it.
As far as the bridges go I've seem some museum bows that were wood to wood, and just as many that had rawhide under the blocks. The other thing is I dont know if they removed those or not when they un-twisted the main cable after @ hunt.
hope that helps ya some
rich
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It does. I am contemplating walking a while in your footsteps. . . well i guess they would be Inuit footsteps eh? ;D Thanks.
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Rich, great job. Never have I seen anything quite like that--techologically sophisticated but primitive. I may see if I can get my hands on a copy of Mason's book. Another great bow!
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Here are some pics of a simpler cabling pattern bow that I made (along with an Otter arrow) but did not post. This pattern is also authentic but is one of the simpler types.
Here's the pics
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hey Rich
As always.......I'm impressed, and inspired!
Keep us learning....
Ron
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Rich, I am digging into this a bit more as I contemplate my own adventure. in doing so I have a couple other questions. I hope you do not mind.
First, how tight do you wind the cable loops?
Second, do you let off the tension from the back cable by untwisting it when the bow is unstrung?
I have two hickory bows laid out because they both had major nicks in the back from debarking. These will be the simple Inuit cable back bows. I have also decided to go fetch a willow stave and work it green and then make a tatar style with the deflexed mid limbs and tips. Any suggestions will be welcomed. I love a challenge.
OH and one more - the handle braces how thick did you make yours? I looked at the reference you used and they were light on the specs. I would love to see a volume 3 to Steve Allely and Jim Hamm's Encyclopedia of North American Indian bows, arrows, and quivers! ;D
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Swamp,
The cable can be tensioned to any degree you wish. Basically it is a matter of more turns equal more draw weight/ tension. Most of mine were only about 3 to 5 turns. That means the string spoons which only get a half turn at a time so ya got to go between 6 to 10, 1/2 turns. On shorter bows that's usually enough to go upward about 10-15 pounds of "weight".
Your second question: The cables are wrapped to bind them down (except for the four passes at the grip which pass through the cable) so they have winding tension on them.....pull the four wraps in the grip area and the cable will will un-wrap by it self. I can only assume this was done with the bow unbraced to minimize the the overall cable tension.....but couldn't swear to it.
The grip brace (belly side) is simply an unglued "belly lamination" and is used to change the profile of the bow. Mine was too thin and allowed too much bend in the center....a thicker one would have put more bend toward the outer limbs. But overall I think if you went with 1/4 to 1/8 inch thick pieces you would be pretty close to what ya need....since they are tied in, you can tweek" @ one to suit the particular bow.
You will find it easiest to wrap your main cable first, then place your rawhide, then do the cable wrapping and soldier hitches. The main cable adds weight and the hitches keep the limbs bound together (stabilize the wood) and locate the cable on the long axis.
hope that answers your questions.....if not please email me at rousseau.rd@att.net....happy to help if I can.
rich
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many thanks.