water/cape buffulo with stone points........ has it been done??

[hawkbow]

I would love to make a kill on one of those big bulls with one of Wolf Watchers points.... at about ten yards or so... but would want  Jim shockey backing me up with his double rifle for sure... Hawka A/ho

[mullet]

 I think points made from Ryolite, raw coral,or Texas Chert would hold up real well. Stone points were used all over Africa in Prehistoric times. There is plenty in museums in Egypt and Ethiopia that I have seen in books. When Claude VanOrder went to Central Africa a few years ago, around the Congo, he found numerous quarry sites and worked stone with flakes everywhere he said. He has made some really cool looking reproduction Egyptian heads.

[D. Tiller]

Those Egyptian heads are amazing! I am going to be making some in the future when I get a chance. Just learned how to make expanding notches and the sky's the limit now!

[agd68]

I think a sharp arrowhead would do the job on a Buff just fine. Remember it's a different set of physics that affect an arrow than a bullet.While the mass of a large animal like a Buff really hinders the shock of a bullet a sharp arrowhead will slice through it. Mind you,your obviously not going to attempt this with a light bow or your going to get the sharp end of the  .A fellow I know who hunts large bears regularly says an arrow will kill one much easier than a bullet, you just got to put it in the right place.

[D. Tiller]

Also, small diameter points just bigger than the shaft will penetrate further than wide points. Wide points create large diameter holes but dont penetrate as far as the smaller ones. Ever see Lakota points for their buff hunting arrows? They were tiny! But, boy oh boy did they punch through a buff to bring them down!!!

[mdwatts]

Ozy,

I wish you well in your quest!  I'm rootin' for ya!  Once you begin your experimenting with stone vs. steel in penetration, keep us posted.  This will be quite interesting and possibly, new writing of modern history.

Good luck!

[D. Tiller]

Ya need to talk to Billy. He has posted some articles in PA on this.

[ozy clint]

okay guys i'm starting to think about this a bit more. i have no knapping experience so i need to see what points you would use. so i get an idea of what each design looks like. what stone to use and where i can get some. what self bow wood do you think would yield the most efficient bow for a given poundage. i'm guessing i'll have to work into about 80#. my draw is 28".

i've herd ryolite and raw texas chert mentioned a couple of times. what traits of these materials lend themselves to be recommended here? why raw and not cooked? i'm thinking 1" to 1 1/4" wide is going to optimal for point width. would you haft if differently than normal? i'm thinking that tapering the shaft point more and running the shaft end closer to the tip of the point. basicly a deep notch in the shaft so as to support the point better. what shaft material do you think would be stiff enough to handle a 400gr point out of an 80# selfbow?

what timber and what design would you use to make a selfbow of 80#? considering that performance is paramont! recurve?? reflex/deflex longbow??

[Justin Snyder]

Raw ryolite and Texas chert are hard, cooked is softer. My main concern is strength since I already know stone points are plenty sharp.  I would go 1" wide on the points.  I don't know if you will get 400 grains, but you might. If you do get 400 grains just remember your arrows will have to be spinned about 25# heavier than normal. I think any selfbow or wood laminate will do the job just fine as long as you make it well.  An overbuilt bow is not what I would be carrying. Justin

[D. Tiller]

Howard Hill used to hunt Buff. and Ellephants with 90# -110# bows

[ozy clint]

okay, i shot a cow buffulo on the weekend and i was carrying the testing arrows with me so i was able to get some testing done....

this is her set up for the testing.

shots were taken at 15 meters. the 1st shot penetrated to about an inch behind the back of the point, that equates to about 5-6". it hit a rib and that's as far as it went. as you can see it broke the point off and the hafting was damaged. that brought this arrows testing days to an abrupt halt.

the 2nd arrow also hit a rib with similar a result.



needless to say the testing session was a short one.
so there it is, perhaps the doubters are right. it looks as though taking a water buffulo with a stone point might prove beyond the capabilities of a primitive arrow.

a penny for your thoughts.....

[Justin Snyder]

One day I am going to try it. I have read a lot from the trad shooters and I understand there is a sweet spot. It appears from the picture that you are too far back on your shot. As I remember, you want to be 1/3 of the way up straight above the leg. The ribs behind the leg are considerably thicker.

[zeNBowyer]

Great  thread,  always exciting to  see those  kind  of tests firsthand with  pictures!

[otis.drum]

justin, not to take away from you wanting to do it. it would be an awesome achievement, but, i think plenty more testing on downed buff needs to be done before hand. clint's test were pretty conclusive. i'm not sure the sweet spot is going to be so drastically different.

i'd love to see it happen, but at this stage i'm not convinced it's the right thing to do. lets see some more testing first! and whilst stone points are the sharpest edges on earth, we may find they are too brittle to be reliable on such beasts. just my thoughts.

[mullet]

 I would use a different rock for the points. Those points are too brittle, they almost look like they were heat treated. I'd be shooting a 600 to 800 grain arrow also.