black locust vs honey locust?

[Sidewinder]

Can anyone tell me how to tell the difference?  I've seen what I know to be honey locust all over the place and it appears to be the ones with the thorns at the base. Is the black locust the ones without the thorns or are their other indicators. The reason it is important to me is I was at a 3d shoot in the adjoining county and while on the range was walking in a small grove  1-2 acres that had a profussion of some sort of locust trees although it did look a little different than what I have been used to seeing( honey locust) I am hoping that its black because if it is, there are at least 10-15  nice straight 10-12" diameter trees that are pretty straight and I was thinking I may want to go back out there with the chain saw and go ahead and add at least one to the wood stash. Looks to me like there could be 8 or more good staves in the main trunk portions of each tree. It seems like I am on another wood finding mission lately and its about time to score, Any help in ID would be great. I have gone on some tree ID sites but its hard to tell from the info I've read.   Thanks  Danny

[chessieboy]

2 good rules of thumb are if the seed pods are 4" and or no thorns on the base its black locust.  Honey locust also have compound thorns which is basically thorns coming out of the thorns and seed pods are much longer like 7-10".  Hope this helps.

[richpierce]

The bark on honey locust is much smoother, whereas black locust tree bark is furrowed and gray.  The black locust crown is open and looks like an acacia tree- hence the latin name Robinia pseudoacacia.

[Papa Matt]

Also, black locust trees are usually taller, with straighter trunks and less branches. Black Locust has only little thorns coming out of the twigs (thorns are only 1/4 to 1/2" in length), but never as long as Honey Locust (up to 7" in length) and never coming out of the trunk unless its a Black Locust sappling.

Honey Locust tree twigs are zig-zagged. And usually one can tell right away what it is by the presence or absence of the huge spike-like thorns coming out of the trunk and branches.

Think ya got 'er now? If not just let us know 

~~Papa Matt

[Sidewinder]

Well PapaMatt, there is the absense of the big thorns so I 'm thinking it may be black. The seed pods I did not see. the bottom of the trunks were straight and go up about 12-15 ft before it branches out. At least on most of the ones I looked at.   I think when I go back out there to cut I will look at the twigs and will look for the little thorns you mentioned. I did see any but then again the branches were up there a way and if there is thorns on it they are small and absolutley none at the base like I have seen around honey locust. Oh I hope its black because if it is I have hit a jackpot.Danny

[snedeker]

Most of the Honey Locust I see is  modern hybrid stock that is thornless.   Go by the bark,

Dave

[Papa Matt]

What does the bark look like, Sidewinder? I think you'll be happy because it sounds like Black. Usually if you don't see any thorns right away, it's black. You don't usually see any thorns on Black until you look up close. Let us know so we can rejoice with ya!

~~Matt

[Papa Matt]

Yes, there is the thornless modern hybrid, but that usually is planted in city limits and doesn't grow by itself in the wild. The bark and the thorns (or absence thereof) are the best and quickest tell-tale signs. I'm bettin it's Black from what he says.

~~Matt

[TRACY]

 The bark of the honey locust is smoother and resembles that of a sugar maple. They may or may not have thorns and if present are in threes. Black locust bark resembles thicker bark like a black walnut with deep furrows.

Tracy

[sailordad]

 just look for the thread titled  "harvested a black locust"  here in the bows section,there sre some really nice pics of bl logs  and staves on t his thread.

or go cut it,send me a stave and i'll let ya know if its bl 

[Ryano]

The bark is completely different...Black locust bark looks more like osage bark. Honey locust has long curly verticaly scalely bark. black locust isn't scalely at all.

[orcbow]

If you have the wood cut- here's another way to tell them apart. First, honey locust tends to have a wide band of white sapwood, maybe 2-3 inches, whereas black locust has a much narrower band of sapwood- 1/2 to 1 inch at the most. Then the color of the heartwood of honey locust varies from orange to peach to pink, or even a blend of all those colors. Black locust has a distinct greenish-yellow color.
Now I don't know where you are at in your tree I.D. but there is one more possibility. There is also the Kentucky Coffee Bean Tree, also called just coffee bean cause it grows in other states besides Kentucky. The wood ,however, is nearly identical to honey locust, and is often these two woods are mixed at a saw mill.

[Sidewinder]

I had to speak with the park mgr about harvesting on state land and he said I could only take  already downed trees. He said he was familiar with the grove in question and that he was not sure what kind of Locust it was. He said I could not take a live tree but that there where 2 that were down and that I could go check those out and if I decided I wanted them I would need to come back and get a permit. I have decided that I will wait until next month for the shoot and reconoiter them then. Kind of a long drive if its rotted so I will wait until then. I will post back when I have more info.   Danny

[Hillbilly]

If it's black locust it won't be rotted. That stuff can lay around for years and still be sound-the sapwood will rot off, but the older heartwood will last durn near forever.

[Sidewinder]

Thats good to hear. Won't have to rush it then.  Danny