fastest selfbow?

[Dustybaer]

i was just asked this question on a german archery forum:  what's the highest recorded speed of a selfbow, using 10gr/# arrows?

does anyone know?  to my knowledge, the 200fps mark has not been crossed yet.  is that correct?

thanks in advance folks

[Pat B]

Marius, I believe Marc St Louis has come close to the 200fps mark but not quite there but in the 190s.
    Pat

[JackCrafty]

I'm sure someone has crossed that barrier...somewhere.  In TBB IV, Tim Baker says that with 10gr/# arrows, the average arrow speed for a well made selfbow is 100fps plus the draw weight of the bow.  So a 110lb selfbow, for example, should be able to cross that barrier. (100+110=210fps)

[JackCrafty]

I'm sorry, Jim Hamm made the observation...bottom of page 109, TBB IV.

[DCM]

"In TTB IV, Tim Baker says that with 10gr/# arrows, the average arrow speed for a well made selfbow is 100fps plus the draw weight of the bow.  So a 110lb selfbow, for example, should be able to cross that barrier. (100+110=210fps)"

I don't have vol IV, but this is a common misconception.  At least, one I harbored for while, in fact I picked up from misunderstanding Tim Baker's chapter in Vol I, until some flight shooter set me straight.  If you hold the constant 10 grains of arrow mass for each pound of draw weight you normalize, or standardize the various draw weights.  So, regardless of whether you shoot a 500 grain arrow from a 50# bow or 700 from a 70# the fps would be comparable, the same.

Edited: Evidently Jim and I had the same misconception of Vol I.  I'm in good company!

170s is the best I've ever done with an r/d backed bow.  As I understand it 180s is good, been done.  190s will get you a flight record, when configured for flight.  Shooting technique makes a HUGE difference, 10 fps or more.  Only way to really measure and compare objectively is with a shooting machine setup.

[bigcountry]

I was reading that too from hamm.  I have played with 3 osage selfbows, and it seems 150fps is all I can muster with 9gr/#.   I bet hamm is heat treating, and back setting and the whole nine yards.  

[Badger]

      I actually do a lot of testing using a shooting machine for more accurate readings. Obviously I have tested more of my own bows than anyone elses because I have better access to them. Shooting bamboo backed bows and using modern fast flight strings I have crossed the 190 barrier several times in the past year, I rarely get a self bow past 182 but had a best of 184 using a dacron string, if this same bow had been using a 6 strand fast flight it likely would have hit the 190 mark. We have an annual contest called " walk the talk". This contest is open to modern and primitive bows and all are shot using the same strings and identical 10 grains per pound arrows. The fastest modern bow hit 198. My bow had an official contest speed of 185 but was corrected to 188 because of tape that was used on the string to tighten up the arrow nock making it too tight. Using smaller lighter strings the fastest modern bow hit 202 and my boo baked bow hit 192 fps, I think it is safe to say that any self bow over 170 is considered fast and any backed bow over 180 could be considered fast.
     Using 500 grain arrows I have hit the 200 mark with a 57# boo backed osage and a 61# maple self bow. I would imagine several guys would be getting similar numbers if they tested more often. Steve

[Dustybaer]

steve, if it's OK with you, i'd like to quote some of your statements (mainly cause i said earlier this morning that you and marc routinely make selfbows, shooting at 180-190fps.)

[Badger]

Dusty, I wouldn't say that my self bows routinely hit 180, I have to struggle to hit 180 with a self bow. The backed bows do routinely. Steve

[Dustybaer]

that's exactly why i wanted to quote you.  to correct my erroneous statement.

[Justin Snyder]

I dont use the 10# rule, I use a 500grain arrow.  My fastest was the 3/4" wide Ipe selfbow at 191fps.  Justin

[Kegan]

The 100fps plus the bow weight was for shooting a 500 grain arrow- no matter what the weight.

Marc St. Louis's heate tempered reflexed static recurves shoot 180+ fps (with a 10 gpp arrow) but require alot of time and care. He wrote a great article on making one in one of the back issues of PA. His bows are selfbows, but not straight bows.

I believe Steve's bows, because of the care and work he puts into them, are some of the fastest straight or reflexed bows (non recurved). Even Tim Baker's Adamann-Homegard (sp?) design only shot about 175 fps with a 10 gpp arrow.

In TBB vol 3 there is a photo of Simon (sp? I don't recall his last name) shooting a hickory backed yew warbow, something like 150#, 208 fps with a 950 or so grain arrow.

You can easily break the 200 mark with a selfbow if you use the right design and a lighter arrow, to a point.

[bigcountry]

My gosh, you guys got to be kidding me.   190fps-200fps regulary with 10gr/#.  That can be tough for lam/glass bows. 

I would love to see one.  Very impressive.

[Justin Snyder]

My gosh, you guys got to be kidding me.   190fps-200fps regulary with 10gr/#.  That can be tough for lam/glass bows. 

I would love to see one.  Very impressive.

Wouldn't call it regularly, but yes you are right. A wood bow can be every bit as good as a lam/glass bow.

[Pat B]

Robustus is getting excellent speed out of his all natural horse bows. One he was shooting last year at Hickory would spit a light carbon arrow almost 280fps and a 600gr cane hunting arrow was bumping 190.     
   Pat