data on the Mary Rose bows/arrows

[bow-toxo]

Triton; Since you don't consider the book worth anything because it is ignored, you might as well ignore it. Great reasoning !  Good luck making up history while ignoring it. That is a challenge. Perhaps you will come up with something so much better than your historical heritage.

                                                        Cheers,
                                                          Erik

calm down Erik, I was being sarcastic.  some readers of those books have cherry picked the parts they agree with and discount the rest as it doesn't fit their personal agenda.  If you read what I'd said previously, you should understand I have high regard for Aschams teachings.

Sorry, the post was so much like those from the wheel re-inventors that I took it as part of the threatened big-time shoot down and my military training kicked in. My mistake.

                                                                                                           Erik

                   

[triton]

well to me it looks like a good reason why laws are written as they are today, yet some still manage to find loopholes.
we're getting way off the original topic though.

[Hartung]

Sorry, the post was so much like those from the wheel re-inventors that I took it as part of the threatened big-time shoot down and my military training kicked in. My mistake.

                                                                                                           Erik                

LOL 

[stevesjem]

Sorry, the post was so much like those from the wheel re-inventors that I took it as part of the threatened big-time shoot down and my military training kicked in. My mistake.

                                                                                                           Erik                

LOL 

GROW UP BOTH OF YOU!
I've had it with this area on the forum, both Hartung and Bow-Toxo seem to feel they can get away with saying anything they want and do not think anyone else has as much experience and knowledge as they do. Well they are wrong, when they actually do some research of their own and it has some relevance to the English warbow, then and only then will people take them seriously.
Guys it's very easy to sit in front of a computer with a username that is anonymous and talk absolute rubbish, but I'm afraid the fact will always remain:

YOU BOTH HAVE DONE NOTHING TO FORWARD OUR KNOWLEDGE, ALL YOU CAN DO IS MAKE REDICULOUS STATEMENTS AND CHILDISH COMMENTS AIMED AT ME...........HOW VERY SAD BOTH YOUR LIVES MUST BE.

If the moderators of thisa site feel that i have been unfair by this comment and remove me from this forum then so be it.

Steve Stratton

[Hartung]

Now, that is a veeeeery interesting post and a prime example of an ad hominem attack that I would really enjoy picking to pieces. But we are on a bowyer website here that’s why I will refrain from it – unless of course you are asking for it

Why does the author chose to employ such an ad hominem argument?

“Ad hominem argument is most commonly used […] as argumentum ad personam, which consists of criticizing or attacking the person who proposed the argument (personal attack) in an attempt to discredit the argument. It is also used when an opponent is unable to find fault with an argument, yet for various reasons, the opponent disagrees with it.” “The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject.” (Wikipedia)

And

“The only reason for changing the subject to address the character of the presenter or author of a viewpoint is to avoid discussing the evidence. This makes ad homenim attacks unscientific, and experience has taught me that people who engage in baseless ad homenim are usually […] trying to avoid exposure.”
http://logic.timothycasey.info/

The author disagrees with at least two of my last threads
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,10215.0.html
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,10123.0.html

The author wrote three answers to those threads but later chose to completely delete all of the three answers and announced that he rather choses to “no longer post on this site”.

I will no longer post on this site and will leave you all know in the hands of the very knowledgable Hartung.
Steve

If you feel we are being lead astray maybe you should share more not less. 

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,10215.0.html

I would like to hold it with Justin Snyder and ask the author that if he feels that I’m leading PA members astray to present facts and not to delete his answers again since no one will be able to follow his argumentation any longer or understand why he acts the way he acts.

I’m inviting the author to debate the subjects he disagrees but to do it in a scientific way and not attacking people personally. I finally like to present a quote from Tim Baker himself quoting Comstock: “We're of no value to each other if we can't disagree." (Quote from PP)

Now, with this in mind ... 

[bow-toxo]

GROW UP BOTH OF YOU!
I've had it with this area on the forum, both Hartung and Bow-Toxo seem to feel they can get away with saying anything they want and do not think anyone else has as much experience and knowledge as they do. Well they are wrong, when they actually do some research of their own and it has some relevance to the English warbow, then and only then will people take them seriously.
Guys it's very easy to sit in front of a computer with a username that is anonymous and talk absolute rubbish, but I'm afraid the fact will always remain:

YOU BOTH HAVE DONE NOTHING TO FORWARD OUR KNOWLEDGE, ALL YOU CAN DO IS MAKE REDICULOUS STATEMENTS AND CHILDISH COMMENTS AIMED AT ME...........HOW VERY SAD BOTH YOUR LIVES MUST BE.

If the moderators of thisa site feel that i have been unfair by this comment and remove me from this forum then so be it.

Steve Stratton

 Steve,                                                                                                                                                                         

You may be right but we are moving off topic. I am sorry about your frustration but I can only please one person a day and your turn has not yet come up. Tomorrow doesn't look good either.

                                                                                                          cheers,
                                                                                                            Erik
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

[Justin Snyder]

Some good info in this thread and some real crap.  If you are asking yourself if I am referring to something you typed, I will leave it to you to decide. But please ask yourself that question before you post it again.  Lets try to be civil.  You do not have to like each other, but we would appreciate it if you would try to be descent to each other.  I know people can make a point without the condescending undertone because many have done it. If you need to take 5 minutes and catch your composure before posting please do it.  Justin

[Nick]

Just trying to help steve. He's the underdog now and Hartung and Bow-toxfag are shooting their mouths off at him without any intervening from you!

[Justin Snyder]

I've just finished reading a couple of chapters of  Literacy and the Social Order: Reading and Writing in Tudor and Stuart England
by David Cressy, and he mentions Ascham as an example of an advocate of literacy for the general populace as a means of social control.  It seems that what passes as being literate in Tudor times is ambiguous but being illiterate was not seen as a disadvantage or had any stigma attached to it.  However I was surprised that literacy may have been higher than 30% in the Stuart period.  As Mike says printing and Protestantism certainly promoted literacy.

Perhaps the great man did have ideas of his works being for a wide readership but whether this was achieved with Toxophilus I doubt (well not until much later).  Some of the rudimentary shooting information suggest to me that he in mind, as the primary target for his information, novice shooters and not hardend expert military archers.  I think he may well have tried to encourage greater participation in archery, which would have pleased Henry VIII.  It sadly didn't halt the decline of the warbow though.    

Great post Yeomanbowman.  It is quite plausible that he was trying for a wide readership but addressing those who are able to pay him for his work "gentlemen and yeomen." Also to suggest he could partially be writting to please Henry VIII. It is expedient in any political environment to remain in favor of someone who can behead you for disagreement with them. 

[adb]

It's funny, but typical. Those who can do... and those who can't feel complled to tell others how. I think hartung and bow-toxo should make some replica warbows and show us their stuff, instead of telling us how it should be. Sure... read some books, I have. You'll never really know until you do it yourself. I think you guys should put up, or shut up. Typical internet "experts." Until you guys have made some 140+#@32" yew selfbows, then you should open your minds, and maybe learn from those who have.

[Nick]

Well put adb.

[bow-toxo]

It's funny, but typical. Those who can do... and those who can't feel complled to tell others how. I think hartung and bow-toxo should make some replica warbows and show us their stuff, instead of telling us how it should be. Sure... read some books, I have. You'll never really know until you do it yourself. I think you guys should put up, or shut up. Typical internet "experts." Until you guys have made some 140+#@32" yew selfbows, then you should open your minds, and maybe learn from those who have.

I already did 'put up'. Didn't you see my photo of my replica warbow of three decades ago on this thread ? I did it myself. Please open your eyes as well as your mind and learn from those who are seeking and offering actual information.

[Justin Snyder]

ENOUGH!!!!!!!! If you have usefull info to share on the MR bows please feel free to share. No more personal attacks. 

[mullet]

 Justin, you have given quite a few warnings and Deleted a bunch of sensless, childish crap. If it was me, I'd delete the account of the one that throws the next stone, Just my thoughts.

[Marc St Louis]

Guys.

It has been suggested that this whole board be deleted.  Do get along or else it will happen