Bow design ideas wanted

[Pat B]

As I said in my post about "...Karma", I am making a bow for Herb Reynolds, the lifetime president of CTA. Herb requested a  long, narrow bow with recurved tips. The stave I will use is 70" long(he wanted it full length), has great rings and few if any knots.
   What I want to do is get some thoughts about a good design for Herbs criteria. He is looking for a bow between 50# - 55#. Herb has large hands so I will make the handle 5" instead of my normal 4".          I will use one of these 2 staves for Herb's bow.     Pat

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[Pat B]

...one of the 2 on the left!        Pat

[Marc St Louis]

Pat
I would bend the bottom tip to match the other and make it a D section ALB with limbs 1 3/8" wide tapering to 3/8" nocks

[Pat B]

Thanks Marc. That's kinda what I was thinking but needed some encouragement from others. Would it be practical to add a bit more kick closer to the end also or just go with it as the one limb is?   Pat

[Ryano]

Long and narrow isn't the best thing for a recurve, lateral stability becomes a issue if there to long and skinny. I would keep the recurved section of limb relatively short to help combat this....What is his draw length? 70" is awful long for osage, it'd be inclined to jar your teeth out with a normal stiff tipped tiller. I would leave a rather long nonworking section around the handle grip area. More of a elliptical tiller right out to where the recurves start.

[Pat B]

Ryan, I've always had problems with long narrow bows with deep bellies especially. And I agree about the instability of adding recurves to this design. I'm guessing Herb's draw was at least 28" and possibly longer but at his age and physical condition I'm not sure now. I will find out from him. The only reason I'm leaving it long is because that is what he requested as with the recurved tips.  I'll go for a stiffer handle area and get the limbs working a bit more out to the tips. Would you do as Marc said and make the one straight limb like the one with the natural bend(reflex) at the end or add short static recurved tips out beyond that?
 I have no doubt that Herb has forgotten more archery knowledge than both of us put together. He's been killing animals with sticks and string for probably 50 years. He hunted with Fred Bear and other notables over the years.
   This wood was cut on May 8, 2008 so it has a lot of drying to go. I started removing the sapwood from the stave I'm using. I am resealing it with shellac after each work session to prevent any checking. I will probably leave most of the sapwood(about 3/8") at the 5" handle to fill out the back of the handle.
   Any more thoughts are welcomed. The more the merrier!       Pat

[JackCrafty]

Pat, I'm no expert but I would think that working recurves would show off osage's awesome properties.

The only thing is......since Herb has been an archer for so long, he probably has a bow for every style/occasion.  Therefore, (if it were me) I would make him a NA style replica bow.  There is one very long (72") and narrow Iroquois bow in the Encyclopedia of Native American Bows, Arrows, & Quivers, Vol. 1, p. 63.  The unusual thing is that it has a scalloped back!  I think osage is the only other wood besides hickory that can hold up to this design.

My 2 cents.

[Pat B]

Patrick, Thanks for your thoughts. I love the Eastern Woodland styles of bows, specifically the Southeastern Cherokee styles but Herb specifically asked for a recurve. When I told him I had found a stave that  was 70" long, he said to keep it full length and make the narrow. He may be testing me.
   I like Marc's suggestion about a D-section limb ALB style, and as Ryan said a long nonworking handle area, which goes along with Marc's design. The outer limbs are my next concern. I'll have to contemplate this...with a little help from my friends.
  I may adjust the length a bit to achieve a practical bow.  I'm sure Herb would prefer a well made bow of proper design over a well made bow of bad design.      Pat

[Dano]

Sounds like you are under a bit of pressure on this one Pat, building bows for friends is stressful, trust your intuition, I know you'll make a great bow for Herb.

[Rich Saffold]

I'd do an r/d elb and mesh that bend into the r/d curve when heating it up. 1 1/8" to small tips with black overlays, Elliptical tiller with the center arc  of the r/d just out past center in the working limbs with a slightly longer stiff center section.

[mullet]

  Rich beat me to it. I was thinking along the same line, R/D with the tips curved, static style. Coming out of the fades at an inch and half, and tapering down to 1/4" or less tips. Stiff handle and semi-oval belly.  And trap the tips.

[nugget]

WOW  Yall just blow my mind!  Herb is a great man and his legacy will live on forever. Pat if I were in your shoes I would make the best bow possible out of the piece of wood I was using. You make wonderfull bows. You know what needs to be done.
On that note If I was making it : recurved tips , non bending handle , and try to make it the rest of the way so it is as smooth of draw with no stack to overcome Herbs physical limitations.
I am sure my 2 cents did not help out much , but you will figure it out.
nugget

[Ryano]

Pat, personaly I won't make a osage bow longer than 66" ntn its just to heavy a wood and it creates to much limb mass, but if thats what the feller asked for then I would do like I said before and just make the handle section a little longer than usual and pretty much non working. I would steam bend in some shorter more abrupt curves on the tips. Kinda like that black locust bow I did last month.

[Pat B]

Ryan, I could easily remove an inch from each tip and achieve a 66"n/n bow(68"t/t). Ill check out your locust bow again for details.
   Rich, would you post pics of the R/D style you are referring to..braced, unbraced and full draw would be helpful, if you don't mind. I have had problems making weight with a R/D design. I like the idea of a bit of deflex in the handle area on a longer bow. A bit of reflex and recurved tips could be interesting.
   Eddie, I usually trap the tips on recurves anyway. Narrow tips with more belly support makes since.
  Dano, No pressure from time. Making a bow for Herb Reynolds carries a bit of weight.     Getting ideas from the best source on earth, priceless.
TJ, I know I can do it and I know I will do it and ultimately I will do it my way but with all this talent at my finger tips, how could I refuse!     ...and your 2cts is worth every bit of 2cts. more than I can say for the US dollar! I've seen the improvements you have made in a years time so, yes! your opinions are welcomed.       Pat

[Badger]

       I think, Ryan and Rich have the right idea. Almost impossible to make a 70" 55# osage shoot decent if it bends through the handle. You could get away with a slight flex in the handle but I would keep the center 16" of the bow just flexing a bit and not really bending much. If I did slightly recurve the tips I would likely deflex it back so the tips were even with the back if it didn't come out that way by itself. No real need for stiff tips either on a 70" bow, they have a natural smooth draw if not too whippy. Steve