Why is my bow so loud?

[WhistlingBadger]

I really want to love this bow.  It looks extremely cool; I'm pleased with the craftsmanship, and I can generally hit stuff with it.  But MAN, is it noisy.  Quite a bit of hand shock too.  Any ideas what's going on, and what to do about it?  I've tried string silencers and they don't help a ton, but I feel like a bow of this kind shouldn't really need them.  The noise doesn't really come through that well on the video, but here it is.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/HQzVycdj-5o

[Hamish]

Ow! My ear's are ringing just from watching that. Just kidding.   

What's the brace height, it looks a little low, maybe 5" at the most? I usually brace em with at least a 6" fistmele.

How heavy are the arrows, grains/lbs of draw weight?

String material, number of strands?

[WhistlingBadger]

Ow! My ear's are ringing just from watching that. Just kidding.   

What's the brace height, it looks a little low, maybe 5" at the most? I usually brace em with at least a 6" fistmele.

How heavy are the arrows, grains/lbs of draw weight?

String material, number of strands?

Good questions.
Brace height is 5.5".
Arrows are 440-450 grains.  Bow pulls 45# at 27".
String is 14 strand Dacron.

[Hamish]

Nothing really wrong about the specs. Is that 5.5" from the back or from the belly side of the handle?

[Mo_coon-catcher]

It’s hard telling in the video since I can’t see the entire bow (unless I accidentally zoomed in and didn’t realize it). But i can see the bottom limb well enough, and it looks like the outer half of the limbs aren’t working enough for their width. Every bow ive been able to fix the noise and hand shock issue, is by making the outer half bend a bit more. For me a slight elliptical has been easier in the hands than circular tiller. Circular has seemed faster but more finicky on limb profile for being mellow in the hand. You may loose up to 5# draw weight but will mellow out how it shoots.

Kyle

[Eric Krewson]

Loud bows with hand shock are often caused by the limbs being out if time with each other, The first thing I noticed in the video was hinge in the lower limb and the stiff outer third.

[Badger]

  What is the spine on your arrow? It might be a bit too stiff, and by the sound, it might be hitting the bow.

[WhistlingBadger]

  What is the spine on your arrow? It might be a bit too stiff, and by the sound, it might be hitting the bow.

The arrows are spined 55-60#, (EDIT:  They are 40-45#.  I got mixed up with another bow I'm working on) and I bare-shaft tuned the length so they'd fly straight.  But you're right, it does sounds like something hitting something.  I might try some heavier arrows and/or a rawhide string.

I fear the issue is the limbs being out of time.  Eric, I know what you're seeing.  I don't think it's really a hinge; it's just an extremely wonky stave.  The outers do look a bit stiff, but they're also holding a LOT of reflex, so they might be working more than it looks like (see below for unbraced pics).  I might try giving the outers a few scrapes.  I hate to lose any draw weight, as this is already marginal for hunting.  But I can't hunt with it this noisy anyway, so perhaps there's nothing to lose.

Here are some other pics of the bow, if it helps.http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,73561.msg1032293.html#msg1032293

[Badger]

 You don't have a cut in shelf so your arrow needs to bend around that. I think the maximum spine you should have on your arrows is about 40# Just because it is shooting straight doesn't always tell the whole story. You are way over spined. Also the twist may be causing the shock, If you pull lightly back on the string while loosely holding the bow without your finger wrapped arounnd it, is it in the same place you are in when gripping it to shoot?.

[TimBo]

It sounds like the arrow is hitting the bow to me too. (Alternate post-April Fool's theory: The air displacement from the string is causing the brim of your hat to crack like a whip.  Try a John Deere cap with the brim backwards.  If that works, and you really want to learn about making bows, you can rotate the brim forward by 5 degree increments until it starts making noise again, back off 5 degrees, make a note of that angle in your bowmaking journal, then switch to a wool watch cap.)

[Threy Cameron]

Just my 2 cents for what it's worth. Every time I've had a loud bow the limbs were either not in tune with each other or weren't bending as well as they could. That or the tips we're heavier than needed and made the string slap a lot louder. The two problems usually surface at the same time both handshock and volume I'm sure their connected.

You could try checking the tiller again or taking more mass off the tips? Alternatively you could add leather over the strike plate to dampen the arrow skimming off the bow? Not too sure if it'll help but I've resolved some of my own bows doing that.

[Tuomo]

You don't have a cut in shelf so your arrow needs to bend around that. I think the maximum spine you should have on your arrows is about 40# Just because it is shooting straight doesn't always tell the whole story. You are way over spined.

No! First, the cut-in shelf doesn’t matter—the arrow does not need to bend around it. That’s because the arrow travels in the direction it’s pointing at full draw.

Then, “WhistlingBadger” mentioned that he had done a bare shaft test, and it never lies. I don’t know the arrow length, but they seem to be longer than the draw length. If they are around 30–32", then 55–60# arrows are appropriate for a 45# bow. So using 40# arrows would be completely wrong.

From what I can hear and see, it seems the string is slapping the wrist guard. A 14-strand Dacron string is quite elastic, and you can see how it hits the wrist guard. The bow may also be out of tiller, and the tips seem quite heavy. In my opinion, this is not the arrow hitting the bow, but it can be easily verified by checking the arrow pass for any marks.

But the bow and arrows are really nice!

[Badger]

     {No! First, the cut-in shelf doesn’t matter—the arrow does not need to bend around it. That’s because the arrow travels in the direction it’s pointing at full draw.}

     I don't know his point weight, so I assumed about 125 grains. I believe he said he was drawing 26" and shooting at 145 fps. His arrow appears to be about 28" long. With a wide arrow pass like that, the arrow is not pointing in the same direction the force is being delivered. Thats why we have archers paradox, it has to bend around the bow. I use a 500 deflection arrow for a bow that shoots a 28" arrow at 170 to 175 fps. My shelves are cut about 1/4" before center. I don't see how you can say these arrows are not way overspined. I would think between 35 and 40# spine would be ideal unless it has a very heavy point. As for the shock, sometimes if a bow has a bit of propeller twist, we might tend to overgrip it to keep it straight. When the limbs hit home, you will feel a jolt if this is the case.

[Tuomo]

The Archer’s paradox is probably one of the most misunderstood concepts in archery. Please read the following explanation, where it is presented correctly:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archer%27s_paradox

If you watch slow-motion footage of arrows at the moment of release (for example, footage filmed by me), the arrow is not bending around the bow handle. Instead, it travels straight in the direction it is pointing at full draw. The force vector of the bow does, of course, point toward the middle of the handle, but that does not affect this observation.

Steve, I really cannot understand how you can say that “I would think between 35 and 40# spine would be ideal unless it has a very heavy point.” What works for you does not necessarily mean it is universally correct. A bare shaft test reveals the truth, and in this case "WhistlingBadger" has performed the bare shaft test. Therefore, the arrow spine is correct for him and for that particular bow. I’m curious how you determine that the arrow spine is correct? Is there a method that you consider better or more reliable than the bare shaft test?

[WhistlingBadger]

I think I'll assume for now that my dynamic arrow spine is correct.  They are hitting the bullseye straight on, with no wobble, at five yards with no feathers.  If my arrows were spined incorrectly or hitting the handle, I would see that in my arrow flight, and I'm just not seeing that.  So I'm eliminating that as the problem.

A few questions:
Arm guard slap is definitely an issue with this bow.  I've tried messing with my form a bit and it helps, a little.  Any tips on that?

Should I try to narrow my tips a bit?  With all the kinkiness and reflex, I worry about lateral stability if I take them down too far, so I did leave them a little heavy.

Several people have mentioned a timing issue between the limbs.  I suspect, with how wonky this stave was, that that's the real issue.  How would I know if that's the case, and how do I fix it?