sturgeon bladder glue

[superdav95]

Ive made some natural glue posts before but figured with the new kickstart of the forum i might as well post pics and short vid of my recent batch of sturgeon bladder glue.  These bladders come to me raw and whole from a russian sturgeon fish farm in new brunswick.  as seen in the pics I scrape the inner membrane with a spoon and cook it over a very low heat in water about half and half.  I keep temp to below 60 degrees.  this ensures good strong clear glue.  This glue if done properly is a premium glue for bows.  I normally reserve it for my hornbows.  The outer membrane of the bladder can also be very strong glue.  I will render this down much the same way but for much longer.  about 2 days.  I skim off the fat as it cooks down.  It is cut into smaller pieces to help it render down better.  I will use this 2nd run glue for a mix with my home made sinew glue which will give me a little more working time and enhanced strength.  Once i pour it off and strain it through a cheese cloth it’s ready to gel up and set.  I use shallow pans and then cut it up into cubes to then dry under a fan.  you can see the clear light color of this glue. 


Here’s a short video

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Es1p5HJ5G7nh4URF8

[Selfbowman]

Dave I respect the hard work and authenticity of what your doing but I just don’t have the patience. My hats off to you though brother.

[bjrogg]

Dave I respect the hard work and authenticity of what your doing but I just don’t have the patience. My hats off to you though brother.

I keep telling myself I’m going to do this, but it doesn’t seem to happen.

I tip my hat to you sir.

Bjrogg

[superdav95]

Thanks guys.  It’s labour intensive but worth it. 

[Muskyman]

Just curious if that glue is stronger than hide glue and is it waterproof?
Was just looking at your thread and thought I’d ask. Looks like pretty cool and I really like the process of making glues the old fashion way. One of many reasons I like this site is she many things I learn just browsing around and reading other people’s threads.

[superdav95]

Ya mike it’s stronger and more water resistant.  Put another way it’s more resistant to moisture absorption then regular hide glue.  There are different grade of hide glue too so it depends on the strength you get.  It varies a bit.  I normally use the 192 strength for sinew application.  I have tried the 256 strength too but it gels super fast so what I’ve done is mix this with my sturgeon glue and had very good results with it.  The sturgeon stuff is likely more in line with the 256 strength hide glue but with much slower gel time.  I’ve found its gel time is about double which is great for those complex projects that require little more time to do.  The other way around this is to have a radiant heat source aimed at your work to keep it from gelling too fast.  I use straight sturgeon glue on my horn glue up as it give me a good amount of time and superior strength.  It’s hard to get so when I get it I reserve it for special projects only.   This being said I have done hide glue horn glue ups just fine with the 192 stuff but I would hear cracking noise upon first bracing the bow.  It scare the hell out of me but all was good.  I do not hear these noises with the sturgeon glue.  Not sure why exactly but maybe it is more flexible too.  Cannot confirm this is indeed the case but it would seem to be the case for me and what I’ve observed.   It’s a pristine glue for sure but not entirely necessary for sinew applications in my opinion. 

[WhistlingBadger]

Looks great, Dave.  I'm still at the Knox gelatine stage of my hide glue journey.     I have a whole tub of elk/bison sinew scraps that I plan to cook down one of these days, just so I know how to do it.  Fish bladder glue is definitely several levels up.

[Robert Pougnier]

Awesome post, let's keep a sticky on this one lol. I've been playing with and using 222 bloom strength hide glue from a furniture maker, seems to gel pretty quick but gives about 5 minutes of work time depending on how thin you mix it. I'm about to make a batch and add 10 percent fish glue (from stewmac) and see how the set time changes. I'm considering using a mix of the two for gluing a horn belly but I am nervous about either straight hide glue gelling too fast on me, or a mixture of hide/fish being too flexible for the cured joint.

Those glue cubes look really clean! Any updates on projects/tests you've used them with?

[Burnsie]

Trying to wrap my head around the thought, that at one point in time someone said "hmmm - I wonder if I could make some glue out of this sturgeon bladder"
How does that happen - and then actually work?

[superdav95]

Awesome post, let's keep a sticky on this one lol. I've been playing with and using 222 bloom strength hide glue from a furniture maker, seems to gel pretty quick but gives about 5 minutes of work time depending on how thin you mix it. I'm about to make a batch and add 10 percent fish glue (from stewmac) and see how the set time changes. I'm considering using a mix of the two for gluing a horn belly but I am nervous about either straight hide glue gelling too fast on me, or a mixture of hide/fish being too flexible for the cured joint.

Those glue cubes look really clean! Any updates on projects/tests you've used them with?

Thanks Robert.  Ya it’s great stuff!  If you can get your hands on some good quality fish bladder glue you will not be disappointed.  I’ve used croaker glue in the past too but don’t think it was as good as the sturgeon stuff.  Just my opinion and maybe I did so
Etching wrong also in making it.  I basically just purchased some croaker bladders off eBay and treated them the same as I would the sturgeon bladders.  I think part of the reason may have been not up to par was that I cooked it for a long time maybe too long.  The inner lining of the sturgeon bladders is what I use to make my glue and it dissolves quite well actually and almost all renders down at about 60 degree.  I will have to do more testing with croaker bladders to get it right. I was thinking I was going to dissolve the croakers similar to the sturgeon bladders and that was not the case.  Anyway all part of the learning.  I do mix my hide glues and fish glue also for sinew.  The benefit of this is increased gel time.  If made properly the fish bladder glues would be evry but as strong as the high strength hide glues.  I’ve heard guys taking and teaspoon of honey even to add some flex to hide glue depending on the application.  Say for a pigment paint job on a native bow or the like.  I’ve not seen the need to do this yet but who knows.  I have noticed that the sturgeon glue loves to glue horn to appropriate wood cores for horn bows.  It takes to it very well.  It works extremely well for size coats leading up to the horn glue up itself too.  I go supper thin with the size coats and do a ratio of 5% glue.  The actual horn glue up is around 25-30%.  To get these ratios it’s super simple if using a digital scale just and just making a small batch I would work in grams.  So I would place a little jar on the scale and tare it or zero it.  Then add 25grams of dry glue granules or dry cubes and then add 75grams of water.  I then add this little jar to my glue pot which is just a hot wax pot with a temp control dial to about 60degrees.  This will yield about 100 grams of 25% hide glue. I like this particular concentrate for sinew.  I also work under a heat lamp with the bow propped with the back up facing.  Anyway lots to discover with hide and bladder glue for sure.  Ask if any questions.   

[superdav95]

Trying to wrap my head around the thought, that at one point in time someone said "hmmm - I wonder if I could make some glue out of this sturgeon bladder"
How does that happen - and then actually work?

lol.  I’ve thought the same thing.  Reminds me of that Seinfeld bit he does when talking about making horse glue. 

When you open up the sturgeon bladder to expose the inner bladder it’s actually quite sticky to the touch before even rendering it down.  I think this may have put the idea out there for sure. 

[bjrogg]

Someone probably tried to cook it to eat it.