What do you think?

[WhistlingBadger]

Hickory heartwood kid's bow, backed with pronghorn rawhide.  (I resurrected this bow from the ashes of the hickory/dogbane shorty) 
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,72697.msg1019575.html#msg1019575

This is the draw at 23", currently pulling 17# at this draw length.  I would love to take it on our to my full draw of 27", both so the kid can grow with it, and because I think this is going to be a fun one to shoot and I really want to give it a pull and put an arrow through it!     But I've never done a bow this short, and I'm a little scared to pull it further.

It's drawing smoothly with no stack...what do you think?  Should I take it to 27 or leave well enough alone?

[stuckinthemud]

That looks like it’s giving everything it’s got to me

[Pappy]

I would leave as is, they can still grow into it, don't know many adults that draw 27 , much less kids. Everybody says they draw 27/28 but in reality now many do. By the way looks really good to me. 
 Pappy

[WhistlingBadger]

OK, I'll leave 'er be.  Thanks, guys! 
For my future reference:  This bow was originally going to be a fiber-backed antelope bow, short so I could shoot it out of a blind.  Is there a way to make a bow this length draw to 27"?  (I really do draw that far, Pappy--I have long arms!)  Bendy handle?  Sinew backing?  I don't like short draw bows; the inability to anchor messes with my aim.

[superdav95]

That looks like it’s giving everything it’s got to me

Agreed.  Looks good WB

[bentstick54]

I really like the looks of it now. Good job resurrecting it. I agree with the others, I would leave well enough alone.

[pierce_schmeichel]

Yep do a sinew backed bendy handle bow. If it's elm or osage you can get away with it only being 50"ntn as long as it's sinew backed and has a bendy handle. I've seen some push that even further and go 46"ntn sinew backed bendy handle 27" draw

[WhistlingBadger]

Yep do a sinew backed bendy handle bow. If it's elm or osage you can get away with it only being 50"ntn as long as it's sinew backed and has a bendy handle. I've seen some push that even further and go 46"ntn sinew backed bendy handle 27" draw

I suspect juniper/sinew would be a great option for a design like that.  Stay tuned...

[pierce_schmeichel]

It would be pretty good but I definitely would not over draw juniper. It is explosive hahaha I've almost taken my eye out many times, pushing the limits. With 27" draw you need 54" ntn bow at least, 55" to be on the safe side. It is a super powerful wood but you can't get it as short as osage and elm just because you can bend the heck out of osage an elm.

And yes sinewed juniper in my opinion is the best bow wood but osage and elm can bend crazy amounts when sinew backed. You can usually overdraw them 25% further than without sinew without any crazy set. I mean honestly you could probably go further but you wouldn't really gain much. 25% has been the sweetspot for me when it comes to arrow speed that is.

Also if you are backing a short osage or elm bow I would suggest only doing 1 to 1.5 layers because on the short bows I've noticed the extra weight of adding sinew actually can slow the bow down. The least amount of sinew you can get away with is the best.

With juniper you could play around with it but I've noticed that 60" and up only need 1 layer and anything below that really needs 1.5 to 2 layers otherwise the sinew can snap and the bow explodes. And again if you add too much sinew it actually starts to slow the bow down.

[pierce_schmeichel]

My thoughts on sinew backing is that it gives you 25% more draw length on any bow wood. So If you wanted to make a self bow out of juniper specifically then you would take your draw length 27" × 2 = 54" then multiply that by 1.25 which equals 67.5".  (And that's on a bendy handle bow)

I know this isn't necessarily relavent but it's an idea that I wanted to throw out there.

[WhistlingBadger]

Interesting, Pierce.  I don't think I would make a self bow out of juniper, no matter what the length.  Too many knots, and too weak in flexion.  I'd never trust it.

Anyway, this bow is 55" ntn.  I was expecting to get more bend out of it, but I think I'd need to get the inners and handle bending to coax out a few more inches.  Since it isn't a bow I plan on using for anything, it isn't worth investing more time.  Might start roughing out some juniper tonight, though.  I got some wonderful pieces the past couple weeks.

[stuckinthemud]

Sinew backed Scotch Broom can bend a verrry long way http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,32850.msg434816.html#msg434816

[superdav95]

If you go the route of sinew I would re tiller the inner a bit more to bend more then they are.  I would go with two layers as well on this one.  I think this bow would do quite well with sinew.  Just make sure you use multiple size coats to get good adhesion on the back.  The benefits of sinew are not just more draw length.  If done right it will add draw weight too.  If you are happy with where this bow pulls to now as far as length and weight then leave it alone.  If you would like a bit more out of it and “bulletproof” it so to speak then slap some sinew on it.  I’ve done this and it works great.  The shape and tiller of your bow is good now so it’s a good candidate for sinew.  A little more bend on the inners would be good.  Be careful not to add too much sinew so that it over powers the wood core and belly.  I’ve done this as well sadly.  For this little bow I would not add more then 2 layers and keep it under 60grams total.  So 30 grams per limb.  This will add a little and not be a net negative by adding more unnecessary mass to slow it down.   Looking at the shape of this now I would layer with 2 layers.  First layer consisting of 2 medium length measured bundles of 10grams each laid down from middle of handle out past the fades into bending portion of the limbs.  The next layer after a couple weeks of drying would be 2 longer bundles of 15grams each overlapping about an inch or so of the end of first layers on each limb out towards the tips.  I I would not lay much sinew at all out at the tips probably about 3-4” short of it.  Once that layer gels I would lay a little tiny 5gram layer overlapping the where the first two layer overlap feathering back towards handle.  All of these bundles very clean and thoroughly washed and combed before layer soaked in hide glue.  I would then cover this with goat skin parchment after a few weeks or more and this little bow would be a smoker!   With those short little non working recurves it would be really good actually.  Just my opinion on how I would likely go with this little bow if I was wanting a little more out of it.  Anyway if you want advise on starting out on this there’s lots of guys here that are old hats at this that I’ve benefited from too.  Dive in!  The water nice.   😊

[WhistlingBadger]

Well, I already backed it with pronghorn rawhide (which, by the way, makes a FANTASTIC bow backing if you can get it), so I think I'll just leave it be.  But for future projects?  I've learned a lot from your comments.  Thanks, everybody.

[pierce_schmeichel]

Its super simple haha, a couple coats of hide glue, chew that sinew and slap it on! Thats the traditional way it was done here in America. Also yes it does add draw weight, a really cool kind of draw weight. It's like a rubber band. It stretches and bounces back to its original shape. It makes for a very even draw, very minimal "stacking". You gotta do it for your next project! I think you may fall in love with how it turns out. If you do the chewed sinew method it will dry faster, id say itll dry in about 2 weeks (depending on your ambient humidity of course) you may even be able to get away with using it sooner, just make sure it's totally dry.