RM Juniper questions

[WhistlingBadger]

Hey, all.  I went out wandering with the Badgerling on Saturday, and lo and behold, we found the holy grail:  A six inch thick rocky mountain juniper trunk with about eight feet of straight, knot-free grain.  I didn't have my saw or my GPS with me, but I'm fairly confident I can find it again.  I also recently acquired some buffalo sinew from the friendly local bison ranch, so perhaps this is meant to be.

So as usual, a few questions:  Should I go cut this thing now and let it season before I start working it?  Should I cut in the spring when the bark will come off easier, or is that more of a hardwood thing?  Is juniper usually worked green, or seasoned first?  And finally, with sinew-backed juniper, does one just peel off the bark and use the underlying sapwood for the back, or follow a ring?  Any advice would be appreciated.  This is a really special piece of wood.  If I can find it again.

[Del the cat]

You'll find it again...but it won't be quite as thick or long or straight as you recall!
We bowyers are a bit like fishermen... the one that got away is always that bit better.
Good luck
Del

[WhistlingBadger]

You'll find it again...but it won't be quite as thick or long or straight as you recall!
We bowyers are a bit like fishermen... the one that got away is always that bit better.
Good luck
Del

That made me laugh.  You have a profound insight into human nature, Del.   

[wstanley]

Chuck Loeffler is the guy to ask, he makes amazing sinew backed juniper bows, as I'm sure you know. He has a great instructional video on YouTube.

I have made 6 sinew backed juniper bows. Five of those have been by splitting the wood of the live tree. I immediately take the bark off and shape it out roughly. I then recurve the tips (simply over boiled water) with the bow quite green - maybe 50% moisture content. Then I let that sucker dry for about a couple months in a cool dry place, at which point I floor tiller before applying sinew. Don't chase a ring, leave the outer ring in place. I don't think it matters though, you could if you want. However, the rings are likely very narrow, so you'll just be creating more work than you need since the sinew will  reinforce the back whether you violate a ring or not.   

Good luck, juniper is amazing when you add sinew!

[WhistlingBadger]

Looked up a few of Chuck's posts.  Thanks for the tip.  I'll try to get back up there and collect that stave (which I'm quite sure is even BETTER than I remember it, Del) as soon as I get my current project done and have the space to work on it.  I'm reading lots of places that you want to put the recurves in it while it's still green.    Glad I don't have to chase a ring--not sure I'm quite ready for that just yet.

[WhistlingBadger]

OK, another question.  I know I'm really counting my chickens before they hatch, here, but I'm thinking about design.  (I keep hearing the juniper should be roughed out green, so I want to have a pretty good idea of what I'm going for before I collect the wood)

What I'd really like to do is do a sort of mollegabet recurve:  Very wide, sinewed inner limbs, and very narrow, stiff static recurves on the outside.  Stiff handle; probably 62" or so overall.  How feasible does that sound?  And since tillering is not my strong point yet, how hard would something like that be to tiller?

[txdm]

One thing to note, if the bark twists in spiral fashion around the trunk, then the grain probably twists too. I'm looking forward to seeing it.

[WhistlingBadger]

One thing to note, if the bark twists in spiral fashion around the trunk, then the grain probably twists too. I'm looking forward to seeing it.

Looked pretty straight on the tree, but it's hard to tell.  I'll keep you all posted.  T

[txdm]

Chuck Loeffler is the guy to ask, he makes amazing sinew backed juniper bows, as I'm sure you know. He has a great instructional video on YouTube.

I'm having no luck finding this video... can you point us in the right direction?

[wstanley]

txdm here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_NyArp2rDE

its an eight par video

[wstanley]

Hey Whistling Badger, I've never made a mollegabet from juniper, but I don't see why not. All I can advise you is that juniper is pretty much no good unless its backed with sinew. With that in mind I would suggest extending the sinew the full length of the bow to include the static thin tips - juniper as Chuck would say has bad tension strength. Even if the tips are static I wouldn't take the chance with juniper unbacked in those sections. Maybe someone else with much more experience can correct me if wrong.

[loefflerchuck]

A lot has been said already that is good advise. If your tips are stiff, there is no need for sinew. Sounds like a good design. Get a knife under the bark and peel off a strip to see if it peels straight. straight bark is straight grain of course. If you have time, you can work it green. When it's green you can steam it for 20 min or so and shape it like clay. Leave it clamped for a week to season. When it's fully seasoned it needs to be soaked a few days to steam bend or it will break. Take off the bark and use the unbroken ring under it. You can also belly split another stave woth an axe and it usually splits to close to a single ring. Let me know if you have any more questions. I'll check back in here. Sounds like quite a tree. The most perfect tree I ever found was too beautiful. I had to return 3 times before I could bring myself to cut it. I love Juniper

[WhistlingBadger]

Thanks, guys.  So Chuck, I could leave the tips unsinewed?  The juniper wouldn't cave in with the pressure?

[WhistlingBadger]

I'm wondering about backing the tips.  I know static recurves and levers are usually not backed, because you want them as light as possible, but juniper is such a soft wood I'd worry about getting them all dinged up out in the hills.  Would it be worth adding some kind of protection to the tips?  Sinew, thin rawhide, some kind of plant fiber that's lighter than sinew?  Or just leave them naked and hope I don't trip and bang the tips on a rock? 

What do you think?

[txdm]

I like rawhide on the tips of juniper just to make it tougher. Loads of CA glue can be used to coat it, but it sounds like a pain.