The Disgrace that is the Hollywood Bow...

[bassman211]

Maybe at 28 inches of draw the Sudbury would do much better.  3 more inches of draw would make a big difference. Tiny plains replicas. what draw length and poundage?

[bassman211]

Also what grain arrows were they shooting?

[PatM]

Maybe at 28 inches of draw the Sudbury would do much better.  3 more inches of draw would make a big difference. Tiny plains replicas. what draw length and poundage?

 Pope's flight arrow was a 310 grain arrow.  So light but not overly so in relation to typical flight arrows.

 Laubin often made bows of around 40-48 inches give or take and in the 40-60 pound range but shot typical Plains style arrows around 200 yards.  His arrows were 23 inches.

[Gimlis Ghost]

Just recently I've tried to remember the title of a film that had a scene where a warrior slashed the bow string of a foe who was drawing a bead on a friend. The bow at full draw recoiled shattering the upper limb. At the time I saw this it made no impression till I read of the dangers of dry firing and of broken strings causing such damage.
Whether the shattering of the limb was intentional or an unexpected result I'll never know.

Keep us posted if you remember the title of the film. I'd like to see that!

I think the film may have been one of the Icelandic films based on the Sagas of the Icelanders.
I have a copy of that book and IIRC in one battle a Viking warrior is betrayed and his bow string slashed forcing him to take on his enemies with only his sword.
The bow is often the weapon of choice in these sagas. In one a warrior fighting off a mob of enemies  that attack his home breaks his string and demands that his wife cut a length of her hair to make a bowstring, she refuses and he is killed.

[Hamish]

 "In one a warrior fighting off a mob of enemies  that attack his home breaks his string and demands that his wife cut a length of her hair to make a bowstring, she refuses and he is killed."

One of the first Scandinavian feminists. I hear she went bald, died alone, miserable and was eaten by her flock of cats.

[bassman211]

40 to 60 lb bows, and typical plains arrows. That is a wide spread of numbers. My 24 inch plains arrows with a bird point weight up to 500 grs. Some are lighter depending on the wood used, but not by all that much. Do you have any real numbers?  Example.... A 60 lb bow shooting a 300 gr arrow ,or 40 lb bow shooting a 400 gr arrow, and was he shooting pinch finger, or 3 under, or split finger, and at what draw  length was he shooting to get 200 yds. arrow flight. Just curious.

[bradsmith2010]

im sure there is a wide range of quality,,

[PatM]

40 to 60 lb bows, and typical plains arrows. That is a wide spread of numbers. My 24 inch plains arrows with a bird point weight up to 500 grs. Some are lighter depending on the wood used, but not by all that much. Do you have any real numbers?  Example.... A 60 lb bow shooting a 300 gr arrow ,or 40 lb bow shooting a 400 gr arrow, and was he shooting pinch finger, or 3 under, or split finger, and at what draw  length was he shooting to get 200 yds. arrow flight. Just curious.

 The spread is even larger actually but two bows he mentioned specifically were a 40 inch sinew backed Ash that pulled 35 at 20 and shot 179 with a 23 inch arrow and a 48 inch sinew backed Hickory Sioux style that pulled 55 at 23 and shot 220. The arrow was just a shortened 5/16 shaft.

 I think it's pretty clear that little bows were not just capable of short range or lobbing.

[bassman211]

 A 5/16 cedar shaft 26 inches long is 210 grs by my powder measure scale. That is the shaft by it's self with a string nock cut out, and tapered tip. More the weight of what flight shooters shoot  out of short horn, and wooden self bows etc. with barrel tapered, or not arrows. Not convinced those numbers you posted would be typical of the average plains horse bows, and arrows used for Buffalo hunting by our natives, or for warfare with a pinched finger release used by not all ,but by many plains natives.

[bradsmith2010]

I have chronographed quite a few short bows,,they can shoot hard, I dont have my book to post numbers,,after reading Laubin about the Sioux bows I made some just to see, they were impressive,, Im talking sinew backed,,

[StickMark]

Game numbers may have been higher in some parts of the North American continent, but not everywhere was necessarily easier.

A book on Kit Carson stated that he needed to arbitrate an agreement between the natives around the Purgatorie River, SE Colorado and a ranch. Seems that a few rifleman killing deer to feed the new ranch operation disrupted the hunting enough to cause a stir.

And I read that Indians in the Idaho Rockies would get close to younger deer, does and a small ones, hanging out, not be threating, so when the bigger deer came in, they stood a better chance of a harvest. Maybe that was in Primitive Archer....

The Yavapi Band that hunted the Eagletail Mtns, sheep, and lived near the Colorado River in SW Arizona would get skins, other materials from other bands and create functional art, as their own area lacked some resources.

[StickMark]

On Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings, the characters hold the supposed war poundage bows back at anchor long, like a minute long...joke.

Interesting thread.

[PatM]

A 5/16 cedar shaft 26 inches long is 210 grs by my powder measure scale. That is the shaft by it's self with a string nock cut out, and tapered tip. More the weight of what flight shooters shoot  out of short horn, and wooden self bows etc. with barrel tapered, or not arrows. Not convinced those numbers you posted would be typical of the average plains horse bows, and arrows used for Buffalo hunting by our natives, or for warfare with a pinched finger release used by not all ,but by many plains natives.

Why not?   The tertiary or secondary release is a great release for a short bow.  It flatters if anything.

[bassman211]

Were is your book? I would like to see your numbers.

[PatM]

You can source the book easily. It may even be online.