Author Topic: Advantages and disadvantages of a 20" draw  (Read 5509 times)

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Offline boomhowzer

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Advantages and disadvantages of a 20" draw
« on: August 19, 2021, 10:52:58 pm »
I've been seeing some very short bows with on here lately, particularly:

Tibor's
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,70453.0.html

and organic_archer's
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,70486.0.html

Why is everyone so obsessed with drawing a full 26, 27, or 28 inches? It seems like a short, compact draw would be far more accurate and discrete in an ambush situation. It also seems like a wider variety of materials can withstand a 20" draw, meaning good bow woods could be shorter and bad bow woods could be weaker. Am I missing something? Or should I be hunting with a 48" bow drawing 45# @ 20" this year?
Bellaire, MI

Offline HanibalLecter(InnerSmile)

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Re: Advantages and disadvantages of a 20" draw
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2021, 11:42:50 pm »
I don't understand how you even break a bow. Of any type. It's the one problem I've never had before. I suck at everything that's considered easy around here, but all my bows draw past 30" no problem. Even wood bows.  Even oak bows. And I never have any set. It's the same thing with flexibility. Most Americans can't touch their toes without bending their knees forward. I can put my ankles together with my legs actually bending inward, and put my hands flat on the floor. Some people are just living in an alternate reality where range of motion is severely reduced.


I agree with you though, you can make a fine bow with a short draw. Making it thicker than usual (like an English longbow) and a good deal of reflex seems to help improve cast on the bows you don't want to draw far.

On the other hand, making bows very wide and thin is a good way to increase draw. More draw = more potential energy storage, but if you're not using straight grained and mostly knot-free wood with most non-conifers, you're probably going to get a break.

I eventually gave up on trying to find good bow wood and just starting splicing short pieces together, and gluing them to handles. Making bows this way is funner, to be honest. Never understood the appeal of character staves, when they're more prone to break and you can build a bow out 12" slivers of perfect wood. Primitives did it all around the world -- see the Tuktut Novait bow, Sheepeater Indian horn bows, Eskimo caribou antler bows, etc.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2021, 11:47:43 pm by HanibalLecter(InnerSmile) »

Offline mmattockx

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Re: Advantages and disadvantages of a 20" draw
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2021, 12:14:15 am »
Why is everyone so obsessed with drawing a full 26, 27, or 28 inches?

Very few people can get a good anchor with a 20" draw using anything like proper form. A longer draw length offers a significant performance advantage over a shorter one. For target shooting this doesn't really matter, but it does if you are hunting. Longer bows are more stable and usually more forgiving of form errors.

The short draw allows short bows, which can be made from smaller staves. Short bows are generally easier to move through brush with.

I'm sure there are a fair number I have missed, but those are the ones that come to mind immediately.


Mark

bownarra

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Re: Advantages and disadvantages of a 20" draw
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2021, 02:43:27 am »
And importantly, they are inefficent due to the short draw, storing little energy. Such a short power stroke will always struggle.
As a rule of thumb the longer the draw the more likely its a decent bow :)

Offline Del the cat

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Re: Advantages and disadvantages of a 20" draw
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2021, 03:30:28 am »
Energy stored is approximately half of draw weight x draw length.
It's as simple as that.
Short bows are good in confined spaces.
A short draw is good for punching yourself in the mouth.
A long draw is easier to anchor.
Anyone who say "I don't understand how you even break a bow" is not trying hard enough.
I don't think anyone is obsessed with long draws... one man's long is another man's regular and it depends on the nationality and heritage.
The UK and Asian traditions have a longer draw than the native American.
Del
Health warning, these posts may contain traces of nut.

Offline boomhowzer

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Re: Advantages and disadvantages of a 20" draw
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2021, 07:55:03 am »
So are you guys saying that an arrow shot from a 45# bow at a 28” draw will travel with more velocity than an arrow shot from a 45# bow at a 20” draw?
Bellaire, MI

Offline Deerhunter21

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Re: Advantages and disadvantages of a 20" draw
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2021, 08:28:45 am »
So are you guys saying that an arrow shot from a 45# bow at a 28” draw will travel with more velocity than an arrow shot from a 45# bow at a 20” draw?


Yup! Longer the draw, the more distance it has to speed up as long as the bow is made well. Anytime the arrow is loosed and in contact with the string, it’s speeding up. That’s why a lower brace height will sometimes make the arrow faster. Longer distance for the string to travel.
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Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Advantages and disadvantages of a 20" draw
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2021, 09:31:01 am »
Here is an example My late fried had a 31" draw, as his health deteriorated he ended up shooting just over 30#. He could get 164fps out of that light bow shooting gold tip arrows because his draw length and the bows power stroke was so long.

I draw 25" most of the time, just a guess but I doubt if I could have gotten much over 120fps out of his bow at 30+# at my 25" short draw length.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2021, 10:34:01 am by Eric Krewson »

Offline Del the cat

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Re: Advantages and disadvantages of a 20" draw
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2021, 09:54:07 am »
So are you guys saying that an arrow shot from a 45# bow at a 28” draw will travel with more velocity than an arrow shot from a 45# bow at a 20” draw?
Yes...
Say you have a 4" brace:-
At 20 inch draw the power stroke is 16", the draw weight goes up from zero to 45# (approx) so it averages at 22.5#
So the total force x distance is 16x22.5 pound inches.
That is 360 pound inches.
At 28" draw the power stroke is 24" at the same average draw weight which gives 24x22.5 pound inches.
That is 540 pound inches
That's a big difference!
Del
Another way to look at it is to drop a half pound hammer on your foot from 20" and then try it on the other foot from 28" ;)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2021, 05:17:38 pm by Del the cat »
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Offline Fox

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Re: Advantages and disadvantages of a 20" draw
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2021, 10:10:08 am »
Another way to look at it is to drop a half pound hammer on your foot from 20" and the try it on the other foot from 28" ;)


 (lol) (lol) ::)

That's the best way to explain DW vs velocity  (lol)
Why must we make simple things so complicated?

Offline Digital Caveman

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Re: Advantages and disadvantages of a 20" draw
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2021, 10:28:25 am »
I don't understand how you even break a bow. Of any type. It's the one problem I've never had before. I suck at everything that's considered easy around here, but all my bows draw past 30" no problem. Even wood bows.  Even oak bows. And I never have any set.

??? Would love to see that.

Another way to look at it is to drop a half pound hammer on your foot from 20" and the try it on the other foot from 28" ;)


 (lol) (lol) ::)

That's the best way to explain DW vs velocity  (lol)

+3
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Offline HanibalLecter(InnerSmile)

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Re: Advantages and disadvantages of a 20" draw
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2021, 11:45:21 am »
Short stroke can work. See crossbows. Reflex your short bows a little more than normal to compensate.

Offline bassman211

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Re: Advantages and disadvantages of a 20" draw
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2021, 06:05:20 pm »
What country are you from, and whats up with a handle like HanibalLecter? The way you talk  you should have won some gold metals for your country were ever that may be, and short bows with short power strokes are no match to longer bows with longer power strokes same weight as has been explained above.LOL

Offline Morgan

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Re: Advantages and disadvantages of a 20" draw
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2021, 09:39:50 pm »
Short stroke can work. See crossbows. Reflex your short bows a little more than normal to compensate.

 (-P lol

Offline Fox

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Re: Advantages and disadvantages of a 20" draw
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2021, 10:17:04 pm »
Short stroke can work. See crossbows. Reflex your short bows a little more than normal to compensate.


Yes, short strokes CAN work and can be very effective especially crossbows .... with a windlass and a 200# to 900# draw weight ;)
although of course a plenty effective bow can be made with a short draw, history proves that :) many cultures had very short draws, but... the simple fact is, is that longer power stroke = better arrow speed, and easier to have a more consistent anchor point
Why must we make simple things so complicated?