Oil for smoke poles?

[Mesophilic]

Guy told me at the range not to use gun oil on a muzzle loader. He said that the petro chemical based oils react with black powder to form some nasty gunk.

Is there any truth to this?

What oils would you guys recommend for rust prevention?

[Hawkdancer]

Ox-yoke, uncle Ben's, whale oil, if you can find it, bear grease, I think Ballistol is non petrol based, clean a lot!  Extra hot water and plain old dish detergent to clean,  never use hot water and dish soap, any soap and water will clean it, just make sure you dry up well.  I use the uncle ben's stuff to seal.  They are up in Colorado, the contact info is where I ain't right now, will post it later.  If you are shooting and cleaning everyday I don't think it is a problem!  There are almost as many opinions as there are black powder shooter! . Once you get it clean, you should not have too many problems sealing down there in NM,
Hawkdancer

[Eric Krewson]

It depends on what you shoot, black powder or a sub, the subs are more corrosive and may need more cleaning power.

You don't need hot water and soap for black powder, hot water will cause flash rusting in a barrel, no big deal because you are going to get it out with an oily patch but why cause it in the first place. Room temperature water dissolves black powder instantly without soap.

I think what you read was not to use petroleum based patch lubes as they may gunk up.

Nothing wrong with storing a gun with plain old oil swabbed in the bore, we always swab the bore out before we load a gun that has been stored. One of the long term gun storage lubes is called Rig which is plain old axle grease. One friend who had been a top completive B/P shooter for the last 40 years puts his guns up after running a patch soaked with 10W-40 motor oil down the bore.

Everyone has their own cleaning routine, I use water then dry out the bore, I give the bore a squirt of WD-40 to absorb any moisture I might have missed, then swab the bore dry again and run a patch soaked with Barricade down the bore. Barricade dries and leaves a film over the metal to prevent any air or moisture from making contact and causing rust. I run another Barricade patch down the bore a week or so after I clean just to make sure there is no red on the patch, so far since I switched to Barricade I have had "0" rust.

If you shot a sub like Pydrodex by all means use soap and water, this stuff is nasty in a bore.

Here is Pydrodex shooters bore after he failed to clean his rifle properly and put it up. This barrel was toast, I sent it off and had it rebored and rifled to a .54 from a .50.

 

[Mesophilic]

Thanks for the tips, guys.

Didn't know the BP subs were worse, but I've been shooting real BP since I hear pyrodex is hard to ignite in flintlocks.

The old Marine in my wants to put CLP on everything.

[JW_Halverson]

I stupidly loaned out my Pedersoli double barrel 10 gauge to someone who used it with a black powder substitute and it came back with pitting.

I used to use hot water and dish soap, which I guarantee will take out EVERY possible bit of black powder residue ever created, but began using cold water when I became convinced that the thin film of rust was caused by the higher temp. After all, almost every chemical reaction is speeded up by higher temps. Now I am content with cold water and a drop of Dawn dish soap.

As for oils, I like to use deer tallow. Inside and out. For the bearing surfaces on my locks, I use beeswax. Also, when I fully disassemble my locks for cleaning, they are wiped dry and left in a warm oven until they are almost too hot to handle. Then they get wiped down and polished with a soft cotton cloth with beeswax melted into it.

There is no need to buy expensive or complicated compounds.

[Hawkdancer]

Lots of uses for beeswax - you learn something new every day! 
Hawkdancer

[Digital Caveman]

So Eric, the true black powder you refer to is the charcoal-sulfur-saltpeter-rust stuff, correct?

[Eric Krewson]

Yep, essential if you shoot a flintlock, best overall in all B/P guns but I realize that some people can't get it and have to shoot substitutes like Pydrodex or Triple 7.

[Digital Caveman]

I thought that that stuff would be the easiest to get ahold of because the components aren't regulated as ammo.  How corrosive is the real stuff?  Flintlocks seem really appealing right now because they consume no regulated materials, but I may have to many hobbies as it is.

[Eric Krewson]

Black Powder is listed as an explosive by the ATF, shipping it requires a hazmat fee, sellers are required to have a special storage area away from everything else. These requirements have changed who sells it drastically, before the regs every gun shop had it, now very few feel it is worth the hassle. It is easily bought online and shipped to you, you do have to pay the hazmat fee.

Prices for black have just about doubled during covid, short supply and big demand have kept most of the online sellers sold out. They expect to restock by the end of this month, hopefully they will. The run on black has been the same as the run on modern ammo.

You can buy 1# or up to 50# on line, the hazmat fee (about $25)is the same for 1# or 50# so it is best to get some friends together and buy a bigger lot, we usually buy 25# at a whack. Yu can mix granule size in an order, it comes in 1F to 4F with the 4F being the flintlock priming powder. It never goes bad so you can store it for 100 years in the dry and it will go off like you bought it yesterday. I keep 15# to 20# on hand, some of mine is from the 70s and shoots just fine.

Black powder is corrosive but easily cleaned up with just plain water, with the barrel dried and oiled  properly you will never have a bit of corrosion problems from using it.

Shoot it an leave your barrel uncleaned for a month or so and your barrel will turn into a sewer pipe. That is why there are so many older BP guns out their with sewer pipe barrels, during the first BP craze in the 70s many people just didn't know B/P took special cleaning procedures and treated their guns like they had their modern guns.

[Digital Caveman]

I see, so before I totally hijack this thread, what would it take to get set up with a flintlock kit, assuming I mix my own powder and trade for flint here?

[Eric Krewson]

I added more info to my initial post.

You can't mix your own powder, well, you can but your results will be very inconsistent compared to what you buy. Accuracy and consistency go hand in hand. You can make your own flints but buying them is a better option for most folk. If you are a good knapper they are a piece of cake to make. I have found field find broken arrow heads work just fine.

I have made BP before as a kid, we made bombs and blew up everything out in the country. One of our devices blew up and killed my best friend, we were 13 at the time. Leave the manufacture to the professionals.

Kits, that this a complex issue, Kibler are the best and easiest to put together and still have a historically correct rifle, they aren't slap together kits and take some time and a little wood working and metal working skills to complete.

Traditions are slap together kits, screw stuff together and put a finish one the wood and metal and you are good to go. Traditions kits don't represent any style of riffle accurately but are good shooters and are great if you just want something to shoot.

There are tons of kit options from the Traditions type to precarve stocks and a pile of rough parts kits. The traditions may take 4 or 5 hours to complete, the rough parts kit may take 150 to 200 hours to complete depending on your skill level. Kiblers take 15 hours at the most.

Be forewarned this is an expensive hobby, a Kibler kit will set you back $1000 to start with, other wood options will run that up a bit. Traditions kits will be between $350 and $450.

Here is my Kibler southern mountain squirrel rifle in .32 cal, easy for me to put together but too hard for the guy I bought the kit from, second hand still in the box.

[Eric Krewson]

There are a lot of videos on youtube about putting together Traditions kits, Kibler kits and parts kits.

[Digital Caveman]

I see, thanks. 

As a potter, I have some experience mixing chemicals precisely, but those aren't explosive. 

How do you store that much powder safely, or is that what the back shed is for?

[Eric Krewson]

You ever type up  long answer and have it disappear before you post it? I just did, I don't type well so I will come back later to answer your question. Special storage areas are not required for individuals, only dealers.

I keep my BP in my shop, it won't explode if it catches fire, only burn up quickly, it comes in a plastic container like motor oil now. It has to be enclosed in a gun barrel or pipe bomb to go explode.

The stuff we buy comes in very precise granule sizes, the granules are also graphite coated to make them not stick together and clump up and also makes them slower to absorb moisture.

The designation may be 3FG which denotes the size (3F) and the graphite coating (G). Cannon powder is not graphite coated.

Most guns under.50 like 3F, but it can be shot in all guns, normally guns over .50 tend to like 2F, my 12 ga likes 1F. Every gun is different so you "work up a load" that shoots accurately with more or less powder, a looser or tighter ball and patch.

I have two rifles that have straight, not swamped (tapered and flared) barrels with square bottom rifling that will shoot anything I put down the barrel accurately.

If you do your part you can expect this kind of accuracy from a flintlock rifle. This is at 50 yards with my .54 flintlock deer rifle and iron sights, I do have a peep sight on the rifle so my 73 year old eyes can see the sights. The bull is 2 1/2", I snatched the trigger and hit left with the first shot then got dialed in.