When is it too hot in temps for sinew backed

[sleek]

He's been warned and a record of the warning logged.  Next time he will be banned

Next time..... when does "this" time end?

[Digital Caveman]

There was some slippage of the parts at one of the wood splices  within the core, now visible on the belly. It did not, however, weaken the limb in  any way and the splice held well. Interestingly, on the original bow's back, a  small step was found at the location of one of the splices where the parts joined.  If the step was caused by the slippage at the splice, it indicates the original bow  could indeed be heat-bent after the core was laminated together, following the  same methods as in the replica, with the slip under the sinew left unseen by the  bowyer and never corrected. There is no doubt this method was the most logical  and practical for the bowyer to force the limbs into the permanent deflex.

Doesn't this mean that the bow was fine after the heat treat, meaning that Tom is more or less contradicting himself?  What is his stance anyway?

I've noticed that no one has differentiated between hide glue, epoxy, and wood glue in this thread.  They would all behave differently at high temps, right?

[PatM]

Yes.  They all have different heat tolerance.  Formulation of epoxy can radically raise heat tolerance as well as post curing at higher temps.

 Here's a link to a an experiment on heating glue.  close the gap[ after www
 http://www .frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Data/Materials/GlueTest/gluetest.html
 

[Tom Dulaney]

There was some slippage of the parts at one of the wood splices  within the core, now visible on the belly. It did not, however, weaken the limb in  any way and the splice held well. Interestingly, on the original bow's back, a  small step was found at the location of one of the splices where the parts joined.  If the step was caused by the slippage at the splice, it indicates the original bow  could indeed be heat-bent after the core was laminated together, following the  same methods as in the replica, with the slip under the sinew left unseen by the  bowyer and never corrected. There is no doubt this method was the most logical  and practical for the bowyer to force the limbs into the permanent deflex.

Doesn't this mean that the bow was fine after the heat treat, meaning that Tom is more or less contradicting himself?  What is his stance anyway?

I've noticed that no one has differentiated between hide glue, epoxy, and wood glue in this thread.  They would all behave differently at high temps, right?

The bow was fine in that case, but my point is that the joint slipped at less than 140⁰f, so the idea that hide glue is unfazed by even higher temperatures is wrong. And yeah I'm talking about hide glue.

[PatM]

He was bending it severely to permanently  change the shape at that temp.  The glue was able to undergo plastic deformation and return to normal when cool.  That is unfazed.

[Tom Dulaney]

I guess all those world record holders didn't know what they were doing when they set their bows in the full sun to get hot in the Salt flats before the competition. Weird.

And I guess I was clueless when I get treated the bow that set a new world record. Man I wish I'd have met Tom before hand!

You are not a world record holder in anything. All of the world records in archery were set in the 1980s and haven't been surpassed since. What you got was a made up "record".

[Tom Dulaney]

He was bending it severely to permanently  change the shape at that temp.  The glue was able to undergo plastic deformation and return to normal when cool.  That is unfazed.

It was also sinew wrapped, and also sinew backed, which is what kept the joint from completely failing. Plastic deformation = softened.

[PatM]

He was bending it severely to permanently  change the shape at that temp.  The glue was able to undergo plastic deformation and return to normal when cool.  That is unfazed.

It was also sinew wrapped, and also sinew backed, which is what kept the joint from completely failing. Plastic deformation = softened.

  At near 140.   And if that's how they were made, it  shows that heat is fine.

[sleek]

I guess all those world record holders didn't know what they were doing when they set their bows in the full sun to get hot in the Salt flats before the competition. Weird.

And I guess I was clueless when I get treated the bow that set a new world record. Man I wish I'd have met Tom before hand!

You are not a world record holder in anything. All of the world records in archery were set in the 1980s and haven't been surpassed since. What you got was a made up "record".

Thank God you told me! I guess the records should be altered then. So, im genuinely curious.  What records were set in the 80s, and why are today's records "made up"?

I mean, I could just say shut up you don't know what you are talking about, but instead ill ask you to prove it.

[Deerhunter21]

https://www.usflightarchery.com/pdf/2019%20US%20Flight%20Archery%20Records%20Detailed.pdf
https://www.usflightarchery.com/pdf/2018-Flight-Records.pdf
https://www.usflightarchery.com/pdf/2020_Flight_Records.pdf


damn... I guess all of this is fake then? I guess since you didnt see it (like all those archeological heat treated bows) they just. Dont. Exist. I guess you cant quote ishi then.

You havn't seen him before.

[sleek]

A few things apply to you here and as nobody else has told you I will assume the duty.

Two wrongs don't make a right, take your parents as an example.
Now you certainly have a brain, and it has two parts. A left and a right. On the left side of your brain there is nothing right, and on the right side, there is nothing left. Which is why explaining archery to you is like explaining social media to an 80 year old. The way to talk to people on here is very uncouth, it makes me believe the bacteria in your gut is the only culture you have. Its as if your family tree were a cactus, thats why you are such a prick. Lucky for you stupidity isn't a crime, so you are free to go. But stick around, they say laughter is the best medicine, your comments could cure covid! I do wonder, is your butt jealous of all the crap that comes out if your mouth? You do make me jealous though... of all the people who haven't met you.

ANYWAYS......


Id further engage in this mental combat with you but im afraid you are unarmed.

[sleek]

https://www.usflightarchery.com/pdf/2019%20US%20Flight%20Archery%20Records%20Detailed.pdf
https://www.usflightarchery.com/pdf/2018-Flight-Records.pdf
https://www.usflightarchery.com/pdf/2020_Flight_Records.pdf


damn... I guess all of this is fake then? I guess since you didnt see it (like all those archeological heat treated bows) they just. Dont. Exist. I guess you cant quote ishi then.

You havn't seen him before.

Oh lemme try!

Ishi was a runaway circus freak who was used to sell white man's ideas of archery. Anything he knew about archery was taught to him from the white man and was wrong.

[Fox]

A few things apply to you here and as nobody else has told you I will assume the duty.

Two wrongs don't make a right, take your parents as an example.
Now you certainly have a brain, and it has two parts. A left and a right. On the left side of your brain there is nothing right, and on the right side, there is nothing left. Which is why explaining archery to you is like explaining social media to an 80 year old. The way to talk to people on here is very uncouth, it makes me believe the bacteria in your gut is the only culture you have. Its as if your family tree were a cactus, thats why you are such a prick. Lucky for you stupidity isn't a crime, so you are free to go. But stick around, they say laughter is the best medicine, your comments could cure covid! I do wonder, is your butt jealous of all the crap that comes out if your mouth? You do make me jealous though... of all the people who haven't met you.

ANYWAYS......


Id further engage in this mental combat with you but im afraid you are unarmed.

Dang.... that was brutal

[RyanY]

A few things apply to you here and as nobody else has told you I will assume the duty.

Two wrongs don't make a right, take your parents as an example.
Now you certainly have a brain, and it has two parts. A left and a right. On the left side of your brain there is nothing right, and on the right side, there is nothing left. Which is why explaining archery to you is like explaining social media to an 80 year old. The way to talk to people on here is very uncouth, it makes me believe the bacteria in your gut is the only culture you have. Its as if your family tree were a cactus, thats why you are such a prick. Lucky for you stupidity isn't a crime, so you are free to go. But stick around, they say laughter is the best medicine, your comments could cure covid! I do wonder, is your butt jealous of all the crap that comes out if your mouth? You do make me jealous though... of all the people who haven't met you.

ANYWAYS......


Id further engage in this mental combat with you but im afraid you are unarmed.

This is offensive to 80 year olds. 

[sleek]

A few things apply to you here and as nobody else has told you I will assume the duty.

Two wrongs don't make a right, take your parents as an example.
Now you certainly have a brain, and it has two parts. A left and a right. On the left side of your brain there is nothing right, and on the right side, there is nothing left. Which is why explaining archery to you is like explaining social media to an 80 year old. The way to talk to people on here is very uncouth, it makes me believe the bacteria in your gut is the only culture you have. Its as if your family tree were a cactus, thats why you are such a prick. Lucky for you stupidity isn't a crime, so you are free to go. But stick around, they say laughter is the best medicine, your comments could cure covid! I do wonder, is your butt jealous of all the crap that comes out if your mouth? You do make me jealous though... of all the people who haven't met you.

ANYWAYS......


Id further engage in this mental combat with you but im afraid you are unarmed.

Dang.... that was brutal

Well, what do you expect? This guys got the personality of 60 grit sandpaper! Very abrasive.