Author Topic: Oak board: Did I choose wisely?  (Read 4199 times)

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Offline WhistlingBadger

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Oak board: Did I choose wisely?
« on: March 25, 2020, 06:44:54 pm »
I sure wish a couple of you guys had been with me at the lumber store today.  I sorted through the stacks of oak, hickory, and maple.  This is the one I came home with.  It's 1" by 5" by 10'.  It looked a lot straighter at the store than it does at home.  What do you think?  Can I get a bow or three out of this?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/HTRbj5qr66PCS9WP9
Thomas
Lander, Wyoming
"The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail.
Travel too fast, and you miss all you are traveling for."
~Louis L'Amour

Offline PatM

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Re: Oak board: Did I choose wisely?
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2020, 07:21:12 pm »
Three broken bows.

Offline WhistlingBadger

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Re: Oak board: Did I choose wisely?
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2020, 08:34:13 pm »
yeah, I was afraid of that.  OK, tell me what's wrong and what I should look for next time.
Thomas
Lander, Wyoming
"The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail.
Travel too fast, and you miss all you are traveling for."
~Louis L'Amour

Offline willie

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Re: Oak board: Did I choose wisely?
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2020, 09:06:35 pm »
Quote
and what I should look for next time

a stave if you are concerned about unexpected failures, but if that is not possible, then I would look at the maple or hickory for a board that has ring lines straight
along the edge. were there thicker boards than 3/4"?

Offline aznboi3644

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Re: Oak board: Did I choose wisely?
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2020, 09:38:55 pm »
Don’t be afraid to look through the 4ft long 1.5” wide by 1/2” thick boards.  Building short bows are fun and good tillering practice too.

Offline WhistlingBadger

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Re: Oak board: Did I choose wisely?
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2020, 09:58:56 pm »
Quote
and what I should look for next time

a stave if you are concerned about unexpected failures, but if that is not possible, then I would look at the maple or hickory for a board that has ring lines straight
along the edge. were there thicker boards than 3/4"?

No staves around here unless I cut my own, and precious few options for that.   I might could find an elm stave, maybe green ash.  Maples and bur oaks exist around here but they're very rare and mostly grow in rich people's yards.  Such people tend to have no sense of generosity when it comes to their trees.

All their hardwood boards were 3/4.  They had some hickory, but just really big pieces that were really expensive, and they all had knots in them.

"Ring lines straight along the edge."  This piece actually has straight grain along the smooth edge.  Is the problem all those run-outs along the face?  I didn't see any pieces with no run-outs.

This guy says that those run-outs are the problem, but he also says plain-sawn lumber is more forgiving of faults, and his picture of plain-sawn lumber has tons of run-outs.  https://primitivebows.wordpress.com/articles/selecting-wood-for-bows/

Thus my confusion.  Can someone set me straight?  What does a good board look like?
Thomas
Lander, Wyoming
"The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail.
Travel too fast, and you miss all you are traveling for."
~Louis L'Amour

Offline WhistlingBadger

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Re: Oak board: Did I choose wisely?
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2020, 10:01:13 pm »
Don’t be afraid to look through the 4ft long 1.5” wide by 1/2” thick boards.  Building short bows are fun and good tillering practice too.

They did have a fairly straight 4' piece of hickory.  I thought about grabbing it to make a bow for my daughter.  All their hardwood is 9-10" wide, but I don't suppose that's a problem. 
Thomas
Lander, Wyoming
"The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail.
Travel too fast, and you miss all you are traveling for."
~Louis L'Amour

Offline PatM

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Re: Oak board: Did I choose wisely?
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2020, 10:34:37 pm »
Quote
and what I should look for next time

a stave if you are concerned about unexpected failures, but if that is not possible, then I would look at the maple or hickory for a board that has ring lines straight
along the edge. were there thicker boards than 3/4"?

No staves around here unless I cut my own, and precious few options for that.   I might could find an elm stave, maybe green ash.  Maples and bur oaks exist around here but they're very rare and mostly grow in rich people's yards.  Such people tend to have no sense of generosity when it comes to their trees.

All their hardwood boards were 3/4.  They had some hickory, but just really big pieces that were really expensive, and they all had knots in them.

"Ring lines straight along the edge."  This piece actually has straight grain along the smooth edge.  Is the problem all those run-outs along the face?  I didn't see any pieces with no run-outs.

This guy says that those run-outs are the problem, but he also says plain-sawn lumber is more forgiving of faults, and his picture of plain-sawn lumber has tons of run-outs.  https://primitivebows.wordpress.com/articles/selecting-wood-for-bows/

Thus my confusion.  Can someone set me straight?  What does a good board look like?
 
   The picture is to illustrate the sawn board, not that it's a good board for a bow.

Offline willie

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Re: Oak board: Did I choose wisely?
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2020, 12:21:46 am »
Quote
"Ring lines straight along the edge."  This piece actually has straight grain along the smooth edge.  Is the problem all those run-outs along the face?
it looks a little wavy from the half I can make out, the far end is out of focus. I am going to guess you went to the the big orange box supermarket "lumberyard"? or something like it? there is a good chance their oak is substandard in ways that are not obvious also.

looking at the center of a flatsawn board where the rings are truly flat can be deceptive in that a series of islands can be evident as a single ring wanders in and out of the face cut. worse is a series of flame points pointing in the same direction, then maybe reversing until another island is found. this indicates a number of rings being violated.
the two pics you referenced could  be two portions of a flat sawn face. one like the center of the log where the rings are truly flat and the other nearer the edge of the board where the the rings are biased. rings that are biased need to look straighter than similarly biased rings on a lesser board.
Quote
plainsawn wood is more forgiving of defects.
i am not sure in what context he is making that statement

Quote
No staves around here unless I cut my own, and precious few options for that.

what kind of saplings grow along the river bottom?

Offline WhistlingBadger

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Re: Oak board: Did I choose wisely?
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2020, 07:12:54 am »
it looks a little wavy from the half I can make out, the far end is out of focus. I am going to guess you went to the the big orange box supermarket "lumberyard"? or something like it? there is a good chance their oak is substandard in ways that are not obvious also.
We don't have big box stores here; I got this from Bloedorn Lumber, a semi-local chain.  Not sure if that matters.

Quote
looking at the center of a flatsawn board where the rings are truly flat can be deceptive in that a series of islands can be evident as a single ring wanders in and out of the face cut. worse is a series of flame points pointing in the same direction, then maybe reversing until another island is found. this indicates a number of rings being violated.
I thought that violated rings weren't a problem with a board bow.  That in itself has always confused me:  Why is that such a no-no on a stave, but boards don't need to follow a ring?  For that matter, hickory backing doesn't need to follow a ring.  Why?


Quote
what kind of saplings grow along the river bottom?
Mostly cottonwood and aspen.  Chokecherry is pretty common in the foothills, as is rocky mountain juniper.  Both are going to be full of knots, so would probably need to be sinew backed.  I know of a few rowan/mountain ash, but they're quite rare, and odds of finding a good stave are pretty low.  That's about it for native bow woods.  I would love to do a chokecherry/sinew bow, but I was hoping for something a bit easier and more immediate to get me started.

Thanks for trying to answer my myriad questions, guys.  I'm trying to figure out the why, not just the what.  It's so much simpler when the guys in youtube videos do this!  ha ha
Thomas
Lander, Wyoming
"The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail.
Travel too fast, and you miss all you are traveling for."
~Louis L'Amour

Offline PatM

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Re: Oak board: Did I choose wisely?
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2020, 07:29:50 am »
Boards can have violated rings because the linear fibers are still intact.  Think of a well decrowned stave.   Not one with a localized chunk gouged out. Also the flatter cross section allows more fibers to share the load.  Staves with violations tend to be crowned to a degree and the violations often end up being on the peak of the crown where stresses are higher.

 Other sawn  orientations for backing or whole bows are still selected based on the linear fiber principle.

Offline bushboy

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Re: Oak board: Did I choose wisely?
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2020, 08:22:26 am »
Look for something like this...
Some like motorboats,I like kayaks,some like guns,I like bows,but not the wheelie type.

Offline WhistlingBadger

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Re: Oak board: Did I choose wisely?
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2020, 08:27:03 am »
Look for something like this...

OK, that actually really helps.   You knew that high school art class would come in handy someday, right?   ;D  So I need a board with no knots, but also no run-outs, right?  I'll probably have to scour all the local stores for a smaller piece that's quarter-sawn.  Bloody difficult with all the paranoia right now, but I'll see what I can do.

Thanks, guys.  This is really helping.  Now I just need to figure out what to do with this expensive piece of firewood I seem to have acquired...
Thomas
Lander, Wyoming
"The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail.
Travel too fast, and you miss all you are traveling for."
~Louis L'Amour

Offline DC

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Re: Oak board: Did I choose wisely?
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2020, 08:42:16 am »
You can use it for risers. Make a gizmo. I've been at this for six years and made more than 60 bows but I've never made a Board bow because I've never found a board that looks suitable. I look every so often just to check. Our local hardwood supplier can get what they call "bow quality" boards but you pay for whatever comes so you're depending on the kid they send out back to find one. I think this is one of the bad parts of recommending board bows for beginners. Yes there are lots of you tube's out there where people make great board bows but how many did they make before they got one that worked. Editing is a wonderful tool.
I just had to get that off my chest :D

Offline wizardgoat

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Re: Oak board: Did I choose wisely?
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2020, 09:17:48 am »
Look for a board with straight lines on all 4 side.
I’ve chased a ring on store bought lumber as well